tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post146209519063670468..comments2024-03-28T10:31:45.644-07:00Comments on Vigaroe: Warriors of the North Unit Analysis Part 4: ElvesVigaroehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02405424233776571308noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-89253357111655119882022-08-18T21:05:18.705-07:002022-08-18T21:05:18.705-07:00Ouch. Updated the post to incorporate this tidbit....Ouch. Updated the post to incorporate this tidbit.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-31507622832414157052022-08-18T16:05:25.406-07:002022-08-18T16:05:25.406-07:00Driad doesn't increse morale of Ice Thorns (bu...Driad doesn't increse morale of Ice Thorns (bug). <br />Well, atleast Faun get defense from Ice Thorns correctly - no bugs here. Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-49106546679103309562022-08-10T19:06:27.840-07:002022-08-10T19:06:27.840-07:00Tweaked the post to allude to this -it's minor...Tweaked the post to allude to this -it's minor, but still potentially good for a reader to know.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-12013131142009555612022-08-10T07:22:07.972-07:002022-08-10T07:22:07.972-07:00I wrote before that Dryad can only charm stack of ...I wrote before that Dryad can only charm stack of lesser leadership; actually, in WotN and Darkside it's lesser or equal. In practice it have next to no difference, but still.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-847640768089309472022-08-06T13:34:32.642-07:002022-08-06T13:34:32.642-07:00Oh, huh, yeah, the English description does mentio...Oh, huh, yeah, the English description does mention it, and it does work.<br /><br />And wow, one more reason to not use Sun Fairies.<br /><br />Updated post appropriately.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-37469582637631952202022-08-06T07:10:24.976-07:002022-08-06T07:10:24.976-07:00You missed that Driad now increases morale to Faun...You missed that Driad now increases morale to Fauns in addition to plants (this is correctly mentioned in the description).<br /><br />Sun Fairy doesn't get morale increase from Druid (bug). You know, in addition to not getting it from Unicorn. Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-85110825247145809632022-08-01T10:46:21.739-07:002022-08-01T10:46:21.739-07:00Ah. I'd run across 'high druid' in dig...Ah. I'd run across 'high druid' in digging around in files and had wondered about that. Probably wouldn't have been all that great in player hands, but okay.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-61588461281683201092022-08-01T08:10:13.269-07:002022-08-01T08:10:13.269-07:00I guess I should mention that there were another p...I guess I should mention that there were another planned new unit - High Druid. You may already know about him, but for other people who read it - he was a level 4 unit. He had the same AoE attack as normal Druid, had 25% resistance to magic and poison and gave +1 Morale and Initiative to all allied Beasts. Each time an allied beast stack died, High Druid got his talents instantly reloaded; if his turn was already made, he got a second one with 1 AP. Later his ID was reused for a Snow Elf unit.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-25086545125329661682022-07-21T18:53:03.806-07:002022-07-21T18:53:03.806-07:00If it's a word-for-word repeat of the Red Sand...If it's a word-for-word repeat of the Red Sands version's description, it's probably a copy-paste.<br /><br />The English version has different descriptions, which I GUESS could be taken as alluding to the difference, but they're pretty awful at doing so if that was at all intended. The Avenger's Talent tells you it applies to all basic attacks (Doesn't explicitly say it excludes Talents, but could be taken as deliberately excluding them), while the Spell's description informs you that it boosts 'shooting and throwing' attacks and can only be applied to 'shhoters' (Yes, it's misspelled. English WotN wasn't adequately proofread), which is an incredibly bad description that in no way hints at it applying to Talents and in fact is worded so it sounds like it doesn't apply to melee attacks.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-68027868156445239272022-07-21T16:26:39.576-07:002022-07-21T16:26:39.576-07:00Hm, atleast Russian description of Precision-the-s...Hm, atleast Russian description of Precision-the-spell tells about buffing all attacks, while Precision-the-talent tells only about base ones. Than again, it may be out of lazyness on devs' part.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-28303469147514928752022-07-21T06:59:35.343-07:002022-07-21T06:59:35.343-07:00If I were Fanpatch Person, I'd make it behave ...If I were Fanpatch Person, I'd make it behave identically to WotN Precision. The series is pretty consistent that if a Talent shares the name, graphic, and general behavior of a Spell, it probably behaves as close to identical as feasible accounting for the fundamental Talent-Spell differences (eg Necromancers animating dead is bounded by their numbers instead of the Hero's Intellect), and this looks to be a pretty clear case of an oversight, not a case of deliberately nerfing the Talent version for balance or flavor reasons. And with you bringing up that Talent-Precision is a Red Sands thing (I either didn't run into that in my somewhat limited play of it or have just forgotten doing so), that makes it VERY likely it's just an oopsie of copying code and forgetting to update it to fit the new standards.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-60846869080271354892022-07-21T05:05:02.011-07:002022-07-21T05:05:02.011-07:00Yes, I guess they just copied Precision-the-talent...Yes, I guess they just copied Precision-the-talent from Red Sands, without thinking about changed mechanic.<br />Now, Red Sands version doesn't end Avenger's turn while WotN version does, but this is just a parameter change (in Avenger's file) and doesn't require editing talent's script. <br /><br />Hm, from your perspective, does Precision-the-talent not affecting other talents 'feels' like a bug (that should be fixed) or not? I'm kinda torn between "it's a bug, I should fix it" and "it makes Precision-the-talent unique". I tried asking another guy (a casual player, so to speak) on his opinion - and it's essentially the same lol, "it looks like a possible bug but it makes the talent special in some way". So, what do you think?Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-27291961866568045432022-07-20T13:46:53.851-07:002022-07-20T13:46:53.851-07:00So Avengers cast Classic Precision, instead of the...So Avengers cast Classic Precision, instead of the Modern, Hip Precision. That seems likely to be unintentional...<br /><br />Incorporated all of this, including reworking Precision's description/analysis across multiple posts.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-85015275253223245102022-07-20T05:17:52.172-07:002022-07-20T05:17:52.172-07:00Yes, Snow Elves are not affected by Howl.
Well, ...Yes, Snow Elves are not affected by Howl. <br /><br />Well, I thought that by "increases damage of base attacks" you meant all non-talent attacks. <br />Through there is my sort of oversight with Precision-the-spell. Back when I first wrote on difference between the spell and the talent, when I said about Precision-the-spell increasing talent damage, I meant here, in WotN, but I didn't said it directly. Only yesterday I noticed that I must have confused you as you added it to Precision-the-spell description in all games. <br />Sorry about that. One day I'll learn to not skip letters/words, I promise)<br />So, again, for clarity: in the Legend and in AP Precision-the-spell only buffs all non-talent attacks. In WotN and Darkside, it buffs talents too. <br />Precision-the-talent only buffs all non-talent attacks. <br /><br />Also, Narural Healing is bugged in Darkside too.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-87078967255035427442022-07-19T15:57:40.232-07:002022-07-19T15:57:40.232-07:00Incorporated all of this -are Snow Elves not affec...Incorporated all of this -are Snow Elves not affected by Howl? You don't mention it and have already noted cases of the devs forgetting to include Snow Elves, but I'd rather be sure.<br /><br />And wow, yeah, Rangers are goofy. Boring in usage, but six attacks under the hood... yeesh.<br /><br />I'm also horrified to learn Natural Healing is so much worse than I'd already thought. Second time the devs botched Plague removal as a mechanic, too...<br /><br />As for Precision, I had foolishly assumed an effect for boosting ranged unit damage would in fact restrict itself to ranged attacks. I guess I need to go update the Distortion The Legend post to point this silliness out, too...Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-5368936478902033342022-07-19T12:45:49.196-07:002022-07-19T12:45:49.196-07:00In the end of werewolf part there is still mention...In the end of werewolf part there is still mention of Bleed decreasing health in earlier games. Looks especially confusing after correct description of both old and new Bleed just two paragraphs earlier.<br />Strictly speaking, Blades now working on counterattacks is a change too. <br />Once again, Rabid lasts for 1 turn, not 4. <br />Howl also affects Vikings (the race) and a couple of specific neutrals, namely Pirates and Barbarians. The latter aren't in the game but that is not wolf's problem.<br /><br />As usual, base attacks of both Unicorns deals just physical damage. Horn of Light adds magical damage - 3-6 for ordinary Unicorn and 4-7 for Black one. It's triggered against Necrolizards too. <br /><br />As in previous games, Dryads can only Charm level1-3 stacks of lower leadership. <br /><br />Ancient Ent's part still mention Elemental Power of Fire making them more durable against ice damage. Elemental Ice resistance bonus doesn't work.<br /><br />Ranger's anti-beast ranged attack deals 12-18 damage.<br />As you noticed, Ranger's Poisoned Arrow deals increased damage against beasts too. You may wonder why, now that you know that various Dragonslayer/Siege Gun-like abilities are separate attacks instead of modifiers. Well, Poisoned Arrow is actually 2 talents linked together. One, with 8-12 damage, is the default one. Another, with 12-18 damage. used only against beasts.<br />It's kinda funny to look upon overall - while playing the game one may just think that "Ranger have damage of 8-12, that get's increased when he shoots beasts but not uses Dragon Arrows. Pretty simple", while code-wise Ranger has freaking 6(!) separate attacks. Melee, ranged, ranged anti-beast, poisoned arrow, poisoned arrow anti-beast, dragon arrow. <br />By the way, anti-beast version on poisoned arrow ignores Bone too (same special sub-type), even through there are no boney beasts around. <br /><br />As usual, Druid's melee damage is 2-4.<br />I agree about Natural Healing being pretty useless. It's actually even worse than it looks as it actually fails to remove plague. <br />Like in case of Volhv's healing, devs failed to list all plague component. Through in Nature's Healing case talent's own patameters are actually unused, instead one need to edit effect_nature_heal to fix it.<br />Oh, and Natural Healing doesn't work on inorganic, undead, plants and magic ummune units. <br /><br />Faun lost 2 ini in WotN - now it's 3.<br /><br />Avenger melee damage is 7.<br />Revenge works on all attacks except melee. Even Dragon Arrows can trigger it.<br />Alright, this is nitpicking, but in description of Precision-the-spell you wrote about base attackS, but for Precision-the-talent you mention base attack, singular. IMO it can make someone think that it only buffs ranged attack. It buffs archers' melee just fine.<br />Avenger has a minor mistake that makes his Dragon Arrow deal only 12-15 damage instead of 12-16.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-5777605646625862812022-06-13T12:39:10.188-07:002022-06-13T12:39:10.188-07:00Thematically I get why Wind was always a Speed boo...Thematically I get why Wind was always a Speed booster, but with seeing the organization of which units are most likely to get which bonuses and all, yeah, Wind giving Speed is awkward and Water would've been the better choice.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-46440963088615264922022-06-13T04:04:28.173-07:002022-06-13T04:04:28.173-07:00Archers loving Wind would have more sense original...Archers loving Wind would have more sense originally, as, judging by the code, Wind was supposed to also give +1 to INI (and Water wasn't) before the INI bonus was moved. IMO moving Speed bonus to Water instead would make more sense both logically and gameplay-wise.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-87390226264606006112022-06-12T18:13:50.703-07:002022-06-12T18:13:50.703-07:00Bonuses is the default pluralization of bonus; I&#...Bonuses is the default pluralization of bonus; I've mostly seen boni from people where English wasn't their native language (Probably because of the Latin thing you raised) or from a certain narrow type of learnedness. (Probably also because of the Latin thing...) You'll probably be understood either way, but boni can be mistaken for a misspelling ("Was that supposed to be bone?") or otherwise misunderstood, like someone thinking it's a name. (It's also worth mentioning that spellchecks don't recognize boni on their own)<br /><br />Updated the Lycanthropy stuff here, too.<br /><br />Corrected the Ancient Ent Swarm stuff -I'm not sure how this happened, but I had the correct number in The Legend and here, but a higher minimum in the AP post... without mentioning it in the post.<br /><br />The Elf-the-unit Health was me having not gotten to updating here after you pointed out the error in the AP post. Updated this post appropriately now, though.<br /><br />And yeah, the Ranger was one of the examples I was specifically thinking of for 'Warriors of the North seems to have tended to be more faithful in names and whatnot'. And yeah I don't know why I decided to claim Poisoned Arrows aren't arrows -I already knew they benefited from eg Precision-the-Spell. I'll be updating that section shortly. And glad to know it's not a bug. Confused by it being intentional, mind...<br /><br />I'll be double-checking the Faun thing before updating the posts appropriately, but I do seem to recall running into oddities with their melee/ranged damage.<br /><br />Already double-checked and corrected the No Melee Penalty point on Avengers. I'll be checking the two Precisions before updating on that count.<br /><br />And the Elemental Power stuff is going into the post as soon as possible -the stuff you're laying out fits perfectly to a bunch of oddities I'd never made sense of, like an overwhelming tendency to see certain unit sets getting the same bonus, odds in generally feeling very uneven, etc. And this is useful info!Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-54451238883989227242022-06-12T12:32:42.800-07:002022-06-12T12:32:42.800-07:00Water should give +15% resistance to magic damage ...Water should give +15% resistance to magic damage (lightning spell and such), but both this effect and ice resistance from Fire element do not work. <br />The problem is that both fire and ice resistance bonuses* (in case of Fire element) or poison and magic resistance bonuses (in case of Water element) use the same function and parameter while being parts of the same effect (i.e. Fire buff/Water buff). In such case game will only apply the first function/parameter user. <br />It's pretty easy to fix: one can just swap functions/parameters (without changing affected resistances!) that ice and magic resistance bonuses use - and voila! Everything works as it should. <br /><br />*Or is it 'boni'? I saw both used. 'Boni' should be correct one if we talk about Latin but, well, English is not Latin. <br /><br />Game does not tell use how exactly elements are chosen, so here is how it works. All Elven units are divided into 6 groups. Every group has it's own chances for getting various elemental buffs. All units within the group will always get the same element. Now the details - I'll list units within each group and chances to get each element:<br /> - Unicorn, Black Unicorn, Lake Fairy. Fire - 15%. Wind - 25%. Earth - 25%. Water - 35%. Who would've thought that Unicorns are water-assotiated?<br /> - Ent, Ancient Ent, Forest Fairy. Fire - 10%. Wind - 25%. Earth - 35%. Water - 30%. Seems logical enough. <br /> - Faun. Fire - 10%. Wind - 25%. Water - 30%. Water - 35%. Yes, the little guy has a whole group for himself and has two separate results for Water with zero for Earth. He propably should have 30% for Earth.<br /> - Dryad, Druid. Fire - 25%. Wind - 25%. Earth - 25%. Earth - 25%. Yes, 2 diffrenent results leading to the same element again. The way code looks it's very propably not intended. Someone must have switched/mistyped Earth and Water results for this and previous groups. <br /> - Elf-the-unit, Hun...Ranger, Avenger. Fire - 20%. Wind - 35%. Earth - 25%. Water - 20%. <br /> - Werewolf (any form), Sun Fairy. Fire - 40%. Wind - 25%. Earth - 20%. Water - 15%. <br /><br />As you can see, Fire is the rarest element, which feels right to my experience.<br /><br />Lycantropy list is the same as in AP plus Slinger, Skald, Viking, Berserker, Axe Thrower, Jarl, Sun Fairy and Avenger. No Snow Elves once again. <br /><br />Ancient Ent's Swarm always had damage of 50-90 in previous games as well, so no damage is lost in WotN. <br /><br />Elves-the-unit had the same 60 hp in AP. <br /><br />Oh, Ranger is finally Ranger! Yay! Also, his Poisoned Arrows ARE arrows (and thus work with Hunter's Mark), but have special subtype that ignores skeletons being Bone-y. So no, it's not a bug. <br /><br />Also, "I'd really like Warriors of the North's general design used as the basis of a new story. One that's not so heavy on Undead" - YES. You wrote it in 2018, but could buy such game even now. Modern games only dissappoint me anyway.<br /><br />Now Faun deals the same damage in melee and at range. In AP his melee attack was slightly stronger than ranged (+1 higher minimum).<br /><br />Avenger have melee penalty. I don't like for breaking the theme btw.<br />Spell!Precision actually buffs Talents too, so Avenger's version is inferior in this aspect.Quaranyrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13563621496147736585noreply@blogger.com