tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post3742773167475401344..comments2024-03-28T10:31:45.644-07:00Comments on Vigaroe: XCOM 2 Alien Analysis: ADVENT Stun LancerVigaroehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02405424233776571308noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-33299322720330373452020-12-11T10:17:53.607-08:002020-12-11T10:17:53.607-08:00Hmm. I'll need to recheck the report myself to...Hmm. I'll need to recheck the report myself to see what the broader context was, but 'engineered' is certainly a conspicuous word choice all by itself, and 'Andromedons were Ethereal-designed to only live inside their suits' being a bizarre theory doesn't do much to undermine the possibility of it being the game's intent, given all the other theories Tygan jumps to that are clearly intended to be canonical even though they don't make sense for him to jump to or don't make sense in general.<br /><br />And thinking on it, suggesting that Andromedons are an engineered creation would be consistent with them being a blatant callback to Calcinites, which were in fact engineered by Aquatoids. So that's points in favor of 'yes, the devs intended for Andromedons to have been designed by the Ethereals to be this way'. I guess the possibility never crossed my mind because they're usually not so casual or low-key about 'the Ethereals did this' info, in conjunction with there being no obvious motive for the Andromedon's design if it's not a natural organism. (To wit: if you can build a robot battlesuit filled with acid that functions without a pilot, why would you bother to engineer a pilot for your robot battlesuit?)<br /><br />So actually I think you might be right about the Andromedon, after all, and I just overlooked the intention here.Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-80413945851929842952020-12-11T08:57:10.471-08:002020-12-11T08:57:10.471-08:00Interesting. I’ve always killed the Assassin first...Interesting. I’ve always killed the Assassin first, so I haven’t encountered those versions of the cinematic. That’s really telling for the reasons that you give, though.<br /><br />Also, I went back and looked at the autopsy reports, and I had definitely misremembered the Viper King one, so thanks for setting me straight on that. The “genetic tampering” that Tygan referred to was restricting the creatures’ ability to breed, not the Viper King’s absurd durability, psi gate ability, etc.<br /><br />I think I was right about the Andromedon, though, assuming that Tygan’s habitually wild conclusions are reliable, and assuming that I’m not misinterpreting the following line from the report:<br /><br />“...perhaps more more so than all but the most extreme examples, the Andromedon was engineered to exist only within the confines of the environmental suit we see them wearing in the field.”MVMLEGOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17529132128450262851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-33261978126852195722020-12-08T23:21:54.363-08:002020-12-08T23:21:54.363-08:00The game never directly suggests the in-game progr...The game never directly suggests the in-game progression is in-universe any kind of reality. I like it as an interpretation, but I'm genuinely unsure if the developers ever had the possibility cross their mind.<br /><br />Tygan alludes to frugality regarding genetic modification with the Stun Lancer Autopsy. It's the closest to a direct implication Meld is still canonical and is the basis of Ethereal modification we get. The Andromedon pilot is never suggested to have been modified to suit its suit's environment, though it's an interesting thought. The Viper King is bluntly stated to be a modified specimen; Tygan arbitrarily assumes male Vipers must naturally occur, but the Autopsy is blunt that the Viper King's ice spit isn't some weird sexual dimorphism.<br /><br />I do like your interpretation that the Ethereals are largely ignoring Earth because they're busy fighting Void horrors. I don't think it was even slightly the intent of the development team, but it would make a lot of sense. The only nitpick I have is that War of the Chosen doesn't show us there's 4 different resistance groups: base XCOM 2 is quite blunt that there's at minimum sixteen different resistance groups (One per region, minimum) and it's just nobody gets actual definition and character outside X-COM until War of the Chosen. Which isn't a nitpick undermining the interpretation, but in fact a nitpick actively supporting it: if there's literally dozens of resistance groups, but most of them are poorly-armed and so on, that does a lot to justify the totalitarian police state that nonetheless ramps up their military strength/presence on Earth as the game progresses.: because they need ADVENT everywhere to crack down on resistance groups, but until X-COM starts succeeding basic Troopers are more than adequate for the duty.<br /><br />As far as sabotaging their favored, I'm alluding to the Ethereals setting the Chosen up for failure on multiple levels: I intend to delve into this more in later posts, but the Ethereals do things like make it a literal thought-crime to not be unhappy when a Chosen dies... having set the Chosen against each other where one of them wins and gets Earth while the other two die (Or worse, very possibly!) as punishment. for 'failing'. Even the Assassin feeling nothing in particular merits punishment: this isn't punishing reveling in cruelty (Which would be hypocritical, mind) or something of the sort, it's literally 'you aren't crying over a Chosen death, this merits corporal punishment'.<br /><br />And this is all over the place with the Ethereal/Chosen relationship. The Ethereals were unhappy with how the Warlock and Hunter turned out, so they designed the Assassin to be a perfectly loyal no-independent-thinking metaphorical robot, and then are unhappy when she's exactly what they set out to make her into. Similarly, the first Chosen-related cinema has the Angelus rebuking the Chosen for 'letting' the Commander get stolen... when all three Chosen explicitly have other duties they're supposed to prioritize. (eg the Assassin is assigned to dealing with the Skirmishers) It's pretty obvious the Ethereals would've been mad if a Chosen had magically known the attack was coming and 'abandoned' their primary duty to intercept it; we keep seeing the Ethereals put Chosen into these no-win situations, where anything they do will be criticized and very possibly punished.<br /><br />War of the Chosen does a shockingly good job of using the Chosen to sell the Ethereals being awful, awful people, given there's only three new cinematics depicting an Ethereal at all!Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-19337019326156943162020-12-08T22:27:06.250-08:002020-12-08T22:27:06.250-08:00Personally, I never got the impression that, “the ...Personally, I never got the impression that, “the Ethereals pretty much actively sabotage even their ostensibly most favored of subordinates”. I’m curious: which of the Elders’ actions are you referring to? I don’t remember then doing anything to hinder the Chosen.MVMLEGOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17529132128450262851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-32978742961797836652020-12-08T22:17:05.067-08:002020-12-08T22:17:05.067-08:00I think the idea of ADVENT progression is supposed...I think the idea of ADVENT progression is supposed to be canonical, albeit exaggerated a bit in gameplay. You mention the historical precedent for tyrannical rulers intentionally undercutting the strength of their own armies, and the game alludes to this at several points as well.<br /><br />I distinctly remember Tygan using the phrase “genetic frugality” in his lab report for one of ADVENT’s units. Also, in the Andromedon lab report, he concluded that the pilot seemed engineered for the artificial environment, not the other way around. Finally, in his report on the Viper King, he more or less says that the Viper King is a normal specimen within its species and that the Vipers which XCOM commonly encounter were derived by the Elders genetically repressing the original species’ more exotic abilities.<br /><br />There’s also a second, much looser line of evidence that the ADVENT units canonically gain strength over the course of the campaign, and you allude to it as well when you mention Meld. Especially in War of the Chosen, it appears that the Elders have a very full plate, and they have to allocate their resources sparingly. WotC informs us that there are, in fact, *four* different resistance movements that the Elders have failed to suppress, as well as long-standing zombie swarms that the Elders haven’t managed to eradicate.<br /><br />The most straightforward explanation for why their grip on Earth seems so loose is that they’re diverting resources to fight an even bigger battle which the game alludes to: whatever it is that’s emerging from the Psionic void rifts in the final cutscene. Consequently, the Elders can’t justify expending enormous amounts of Meld and other valuable resources on ADVENT until it’s clear that XCOM is an existential threat to them, not merely a nuisance.<br />MVMLEGOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17529132128450262851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-39236567163120223242020-09-18T12:29:23.577-07:002020-09-18T12:29:23.577-07:00Interesting. And yeah, I suspect the final mission...Interesting. And yeah, I suspect the final mission's pod generation is a little buggy, or not thoroughly playtested, or something, partyl just because it uses completely unique pod mechanics and so that wouldn't be surprising, and partly because of stuff like sometimes -and only sometimes- having pods that pretty undersized compared to the final mission's usual standards. (I've gotten 'pair of Berserkers' as a pod in the first part on three or four different runs, even though pods in the final mission tend to treat six enemies as a small pod)Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-52597900264616753052020-09-18T00:23:35.713-07:002020-09-18T00:23:35.713-07:00Oh, and one pod with one or two purifiers, I think...Oh, and one pod with one or two purifiers, I think? You’re right in that almost no other enemy got doubled on, outside the final sectopod pod, which had two andromedons and a muton with it, despite fighting pods with both earlier. I don’t recall fighting any berserkers though, which was a bit surprising since a big pod of/with them would have been no less relevant a threat than a pod of lancers.<br /><br />Maybe it was some sort of bug with the pod generation.pigeonfellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03886444313858431868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-3950756371062749892020-09-18T00:11:32.224-07:002020-09-18T00:11:32.224-07:00They were in the first part. It was the third pod ...They were in the first part. It was the third pod (one of those even got one of my soldiers unconscious, but luckily I had restoration), and the other just after the fake human rooms, before the final sectopod pod. No other ADVENT in either part of the last mission, outside the huge MEC pod you mention and one set of priest reinforcements in the last part.pigeonfellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03886444313858431868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-30288155649200284322020-09-17T19:30:57.143-07:002020-09-17T19:30:57.143-07:00A macuahuitl as inspiration is... possible? I susp...A macuahuitl as inspiration is... possible? I suspect they were primarily looking at real stun batons and just wanted it to be evil-looking and animate in a substantial way when in use, instead of just clubbing people with it, but it's difficult to be sure given how strange the whole thing is. It would certainly be cool if that was an inspiration, and the Stun Lancer's design is somewhat reminiscent of eg a jaguar warrior's outfit, once you account for the futuristic aesthetic and lack of an animal motif to it, so now that I'm thinking about it from that angle it's a bit more plausible than I first thought.<br /><br />I do like how Stun per se gives Stun Lancers the ability to stay strongly relevant throughout the game, but am not so much a fan of the potential for Unconsciousness, since that's only fixable by a Specialist with Awakening Protocol (Or Restoration), making it indistinguishable from death from a tactical perspective if you don't have one or have used up the very limited charge count. I'll be talking more about it when we get to Berserkers, but I think the game was a little too liberal with instant Unconsciousness, given how limited your tools for curing it are and how big a hit to your squad's performance having someone go down is, particularly in forced-evac missions, doubly so if they have a timer. I think maybe they were trying to retain the prior game's willingness to kill people at the drop of a hat for a while, but removing the long-term losses involved, but the final result... doesn't add up in XCOM 2's design.<br /><br />Hmmm. That's particularly strange as the first part of the final mission consistently endeavors to prevent repeats of enemy types across pods -if one pod has Berserkers, you're normally not going to find another pod that has Berserkers, and so on with each individual enemy type until you hit the second part. (I intermittently see Mecs get doubled up on, via one set escorting Sectopods and another set being the massive Mecs-and-Heavy-Mecs pod, but almost never see other enemy types do so) Do you remember whether they teleported into the second part, or were just wandering about the first part?Ghoul Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165232279081041131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3656428975201272042.post-68009247425388768032020-09-17T12:47:15.434-07:002020-09-17T12:47:15.434-07:00I'm glad I am not the only one that was hugely...I'm glad I am not the only one that was hugely disappointed by the change to the HP UI. They had a great way to show health in EU, and then they abandoned it?<br /><br />The lancer weapon looks like a macuahuitl, when deployed. Still no reason why they do a thrusting rather than slashing attack with it, but I feel like that might have been the inspiration.<br /><br />I think you say everything there is to say about lancers from a gameplay point of view, nothing to add there. It's cool that the "stunning" mechanic makes them stay relevant as a threat throughout the campaign, but without the unfairness that a one-shot kill move would have.<br /><br />I actually fought 8 lancers (2 pods) in the last mission in my last campaign, with WotC. So it seems like WotC didn't fix that.pigeonfellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03886444313858431868noreply@blogger.com