Armored Princess Unit Analysis Part 2: Dwarves


Dwarves are still here, and while the most boring Dwarves are still pretty underwhelming, their forces now include more than two units that are actually worthwhile, not to mention enough variety that mono-Dwarf doesn't automatically mean literally one formation. They also include what some people consider to be the best or most broken unit in the game, which is a far sight better than how they fared in The Legend.

Racial relations-wise, Dwarves have moved to...

-2 from Demonic presence in allies.
-1 Morale from Undead presence in allies.
-1 Morale for Elven presence in allies.
-1 Morale for Lizardman presence in allies.

As with Humans, the 'reduced' Morale penalty from Undead and Demon presence is a bit of a technicality, since Armored Princess' negative Morale effects are higher. Similarly, the Elf/Dwarf racial tension has gone from a minor inconvenience to a fairly painful impact on the performance of your units even though it's still a -1. And now Lizardmen exist to bother them too.

Still, Dwarven racial relations are fairly tame, if less chill than Human ones. There's more hostile species in the game, certainly.


Dwarf
Level: 3
Hiring Cost: 220
Leadership: 80
Attack/Defense: 20 / 16
Initiative/Speed: 4 / 2
Health: 80
Damage: 8-12 Physical
Resistances: Generic.
Talents: Running (Charge: 1. +2 Action Points)
Abilities: Vengeful (If the stack is below 50% of its original numbers, it always crits)

Only change is gaining Vengeful.

Vengeful itself is... sort of a neat idea, but it's another one of those things that has more relevancy in AI hands than in player hands. If your melee meatshield is regularly losing half its forces, you're probably doing something wrong, whereas the entire enemy army is going to die in every battle if you're actually making progress in the game.

Even then, auto-critting is primarily a raw damage thing. There's some mechanics where auto-critting is a bit interesting -for example, it means Weakness becomes useless against badly mauled Dwarf stacks, because the crit overrules the forced minimum damage effect- but not many, and not very relevant ones. (I personally basically never cast Weakness anyway) I actually tend to forget they have it at all, because there's no reason to factor it into my plans.

Even their old niche of being an unusual intersection of having decent per-head durability while having a good Leadership-to-Health ratio isn't very notable in Armored Princess. For example, Knights are no longer worse at sustaining Spell punishment, are far better at absorbing unit-derived damage thanks to Mastery, have Circle Attack innately... all Dwarves really have over them is Running, which isn't much of a recommendation to them.

This is probably the worst game in the series for Dwarves-the-unit, honestly.


Miner
Level: 2
Hiring Cost: 40
Leadership: 20
Attack/Defense: 8 / 8
Initiative/Speed: 3 / 2
Health: 22
Damage: 3-4 Physical
Resistances: Generic.
Talents: Running (Charge: 1. +2 Action Points), Strike (Charge: 1. All Miners purge all ongoing status effects and double their Defense, but cease to retaliate when attacked. Allied Foremen increase their Initiative, Speed, and crit chance for 2 turns)
Abilities: Night Sight (+50% Attack in underground and nighttime battles)

+2 to Health (Notably, this places them at better than 1:1 on Leadership:Health, making their stacks slower to die to Spells than Dwarves-the-unit), and they've picked up Strike. Strike is the big thing here, less for its mechanical significance and more for the fact that the game is trying to give them something distinctive. I applaud the effort, even if I'm not so sure of the results. And yes, the game still claims they have Night Sight while they actually secretly have a different trait that only boosts them in underground combat.

For the AI, Strike is something they tend to either immediately use (If there's Foremen on their side) or never use. (If there's no Foremen) The AI won't try to strategically wipe harsh status effects with Strike, and if there's multiple Miners the AI won't hold onto Strike uses to re-boost their Foremen.

For the player, Strike is an interesting idea hampered by the fact that it revolves around using two units the player gets little benefit out of using. You'll at least use Strike strategically, unlike the AI, or so I'd hope, so in that regard it's probably more useful for the player than for the AI, but it's still not great, especially since the effects you'd most want to throw off include some that prevent you from activating Strike. (eg Sheep)

That said, the biggest change to Miners is the presence of Foremen, particularly in AI hands. Driver's Whips affects all allied Miners, meaning battlegroups made up of multiple decent-sized Miner stacks and at least one Foreman are a big threat if you can't kill or lock down the Foremen -and Foremen have a monstrous seven Initiative, so it's easy for them to Driver's Whip before your forces can bring serious firepower to bear!

It's actually kind of fun to fight, even as it's frustrating how the player can't do anything equivalently useful. I've commented on this kind of thing before, but the Miner/Foreman interaction is probably the starkest example of it in the series, because the problem isn't 'well, you can do that like the AI, but it's a bad idea', it's 'you literally cannot do that, period.' The game simply will not let you lead four stacks of Miners that are each at your Leadership value: if you want four stacks of a specific unit type, you have to split your Leadership value four ways.

Also, if you're considering using Miners in spite of their issues and are thinking of using eg Phantom on them, keep in mind a Phantom using Strike will just instantly kill itself, because the Phantom timer is an effect it's purging. This isn't a huge deal most of the time, just one of those things you might not be thinking about and then be frustrated when you cost yourself unnecessarily.


Cannoneer
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 800
Leadership: 220
Attack/Defense: 30 / 22
Initiative/Speed: 3 / 2
Health: 140
Damage (Default): 6-10 Physical
Damage (Siege Gun): 12-20 Physical
Resistances: 10% Fire
Talents: Salvo (Reload: 2. A ranged attack with equivalent range to the Cannoneer's base, which does 18-30 Physical damage against a single target)
Abilities: Archer (Range: 7), Siege Gun (Calls a stronger attack against Gremlins and everything else considered to be an 'object' when firing at range), No Melee Penalty

They've lost 3 Initiative! They've gained 40 Health (Which is 40% more Health, incidentally), which helps in general and especially for letting them really get use out of No Melee Penalty, but ouch, back in The Legend they were a fantastic unit for getting in damage early in a turn. Now they get beaten out by the vast majority of units, especially since a good number of old units got an Initiative boost.

The overall result is I actually tend to prefer Catapults for anti-Gremlin work in Armored Princess, as 3 Initiative is just too low to go before even the weakest Gremlins, and even support from Onslaught and so on will often be inadequate against the stronger Gremlins.

Somewhat annoyingly, this set of changes is overall a lowering of utility in player hands but an increase in difficulty dealing with them in enemy hands, particularly when comparing Mage experiences in the two games: in The Legend it's not that hard to go before and butcher Cannoneers due to their fragility, where in Armored Princess they're much harder to nuke down to irrelevance in general, let alone in a timely manner. For Warriors and Paladins it's less clear-cut, because having your entire army outspeed an Initiative 6 unit in The Legend wasn't necessarily worth the effort if it cost you other kinds of utility, whereas your entire army going before Initiative 3 in Armored Princess is something you may well achieve entirely incidentally, but it still means that getting a unit into melee with them tend to get your melee unit ground down more than in The Legend.

Still, while the stat changes are fairly noticeable, overall Cannoneers aren't too different in how you use and fight them.

This includes that they retain their range oddities from The Legend: a reduced penalty (Only 20%) for firing beyond their maximum range unless firing on an Object or using Salvo.


Alchemist
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 920
Leadership: 260
Attack/Defense: 25 / 35
Initiative/Speed: 5 / 2
Health: 170
Damage: 10-25 Poison
Resistances: 25% Poison
Talents: Potion of Poison (Charge: 1. Target a single enemy unit, with an effective range of 7. It takes 5-15 Poison damage and is Poisoned, while adjacent units take 30% damage but still get Poisoned), Fire Water (Charge: 1. 10-20 Fire damage to one enemy unit with an effective range of 7, and Burns the target), Holy Water (Charge: 1. 15-25 Magic damage against a single Undead or Demon target with an effective range of 7, and inflicts the 'Holy Shackles' penalty. Can only target Demons or Undead), Energy Drink (Charge: 1. +2 Action Points. Unavailable if Undead or Demons are in the enemy army)
Abilities: Poison Resistance (25% Poison Resistance), Acid Spray (Ranged attack striking through all targets up to 3 tiles out, melee range enemies can't retaliate, with a 15% chance to Poison each target), No Melee Penalty, Alchemist (When any potion Talent is depleted, it's replaced by a Talent that will add 1-2 charges to the potion Talent in question. These recharging Talents all have a Reload of 2, and will generate 2 charges only 10% of the time), Energy Drink (If there are no Undead or Demons currently on the battlefield, Holy Water is replaced by Energy Drink. Holy Water will replace Energy Drink if Demons or Undead enter the battlefield, until such time as there's no more Undead and Demons)

+50 Health. Nice! This seems to be a general trend with Armored Princess, by the way, that ranged units tend to be less painfully fragile than they were back in The Legend, and it's one I approve of. (Even if it tends to make them a bit more annoying to fight, as I commented with the Cannoneer) And of course they've picked up Energy Drink and the ability to remake each of their potions! Fire Water has actually lost minimum damage, but Holy Water now works on Demons, and of course Alchemists pick up what amounts to Running if there's nothing to hit with Holy Water, making their quality less dependent on matchup. (ie in The Legend they were at their best if there were Undead in the enemy army and also enemies that weren't resistant to Poison) Also, they benefit from Poison Spray no longer being bugged so it actually Poisons things sometimes.

Additionally, Alchemists are indirectly bolstered by the boost to Burn and Poisoning, allowing them to still contribute significantly even against oversized stacks. This helps keep them relevant for much longer, and indeed it's actually worthwhile to toss Potions of Poison into lines of Undead before Holy Water and Fire Water just to maximize the percentile damage from Poisoning: hitting 3 targets with 2.5-5% damage apiece will usually work out to more overall damage than 5-10% damage to one target, and against formations where you can hit more than 3 units at once it's guaranteed to be worth it. The only caveat to that is that Burning lowering Defense is more useful if you want to prioritize taking apart a particular target.

Note that Burning and Poisoning's percentile damage means Fire Water is actually usually better for opening up against Undead and Potion of Poison for opening against Demons than Holy Water. The initial damage will be worse, but unless you're trying to finish off a target or don't expect/intend for it to get a turn at all, Holy Water's lack of percentile damage hurts its relevancy. It's actually often better to just focus on using and reloading Fire Water and Potion of Poison instead of using Holy Water, honestly, which is a pretty striking contrast with The Legend.

Back in The Legend I commented that the Alchemist's acid spray attack is essentially superior to Potion of Poison. In immediate damage terms this remains true, but now that Poisoning is percentile damage Potion of Poison is usually going to be better to start with just for the guarantee of Poisoning the target(s). The main caveat to this is that if you're confident waiting a turn will let you hit more units at once with the Potion of Poison and you can spray something now, you might as well spray now and hit more targets later.

The overall result is that Alchemists have gone from being one of only two decent Dwarven units (And one that was severely flawed and didn't really stay competitive past the early-midgame) to being a fairly amazing unit that stays solid through basically the entire game. (Albeit having somewhat poor performance in Boss fights) It's awesome.

The flipside to this is that Alchemists are much more inconvenient to face, tending to cause casualties more and more consistently through percentile damage as Leadership values rise. They're also unusually difficult to predict, as I've personally never worked out their decision process regarding whether to reload a potion or hurl a different potion instead. That said, you'll temporarily somewhat neuter Alchemists as a bonus side effect of summoning a Dragon of Chaos (Assuming your army didn't contain Demons or Undead already), as they tend to prioritize hitting the Dragon of Chaos with Holy Water, even though Dragons of Chaos laugh off Magic damage and are actually vulnerable to Poison. It's not unusual for them to waste a Fire Water on the Dragon of Chaos as well, for that matter.

One point worth noting is that Gift doesn't exist in Armored Princess at all, meaning it's no longer an option to burn through all three potions and then Gift them all back. This is particularly relevant if you're playing base Armored Princess, as the Alchemist Ability doesn't actually exist in it, meaning Alchemists in the base game just plain run out of potions, with little you can do about it.

As far as new Spells and whatnot, there aren't really any new synergies worth mentioning particularly.


Giant
Level: 5
Hiring Cost: 7000
Leadership: 1600
Attack/Defense: 54 / 60
Initiative/Speed: 5 / 1
Health: 900
Damage: 80-100 Physical
Resistances: 10% Physical
Talents: Earthquake (Reload: 1. Attacks all enemy units that don't Soar or fly, the damage dropping off by 10% per tile out. Base damage is 60-80 Physical damage per Giant), Running (Charge: 1. +2 Action Points)
Abilities: Likes Emerald Green Dragons (+1 Morale if Emerald Green Dragons are in the army)

+10 to Attack and Defense, +10 to minimum damage, a quiet gain of Physical resistance, and Earthquake has been boosted quite a bit -its new minimum damage is actually higher than its old maximum damage! 

This all doesn't change how you use them or fight them, but it does mean Giants are notably more relevant than in The Legend. It's also worth noting that Earthquake is a moderately decent way of generating a burst of Rage on the first turn, especially when facing a battlegroup that's more than the default 5 stacks, and since Rage is a lot more relevant in Armored Princess that's actually beneficial, but in the end Giants remain a neat-seeming idea whose execution really needs work. The new Spells aren't particularly great for them -Glot's Armor really seems like it should be good for them, but it's difficult to justify casting it ever so not really- and none of the new units or unit overhauls really do anything to bring Giants into greater relevance. They really need some way of getting around the battlefield other than the player Teleporting them, or something.

Alas.


Foreman
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 600
Leadership: 130
Attack/Defense: 22 / 28
Initiative/Speed: 7 / 2
Health: 120
Damage: 13-14 Physical
Resistances: -10% Magic, 10% Fire
Talents: Driver's Whip (Charge: 1. +3 Initiative and Speed to all allied Miners. Does not end the Foreman's turn)
Abilities: Night Sight (+50% Attack in underground or night battles ), Foreman (Allied Miners double their Attack and Defense. Additionally, Miners using Strike gain +1 to Speed and Initiative and are guaranteed to crit)

The first of the new Dwarven units in Armored Princess, and in some sense the only 'real' new one. It's primarily a reskin of the Dwarf as far as its model goes, but as a unit it's a lot more interesting. Also interesting is its internal designation in the code -miner2. That's consistent with their relation with Miners, but usually when a unit is labeled as name2 it shares a model, rather than having a conceptual connection. In fact, I think this might be the only case in the entire series of this happening!

As covered earlier with Miners, Driver's Whip can be an astonishing gamechanger when you're facing armies made of large numbers of Miners -and there's one functionally-plot-mandated Hero fight that shows this off deliberately- but Foremen also make Strike better just by existing. (Though remember: since Strike purges positive effects, you can't stack its Speed boost with Driver's Whip unless you make sure to have the Foreman stack Wait and Driver's Whip after the Strike has begun) Miners can reliably cover seven tiles on the first turn, between Driver's Whip and their own Running access.

Unfortunately, Foremen themselves are slow, fairly generic melee outside of their synergy with Miners. Their astonishingly high Initiative stands out in that context, but it mostly serves to make it difficult to prevent them from using Driver's Whip. They're serviceable enough as slow, generic melee, but slow and generic melee remains a terrible idea to use, and an unimpressive foe to fight. As such, Foremen are difficult to justify using unless you're the Paladin and just like the idea of abusing your Skill Resurrection 3, hurling Miners into the fray and ignoring their casualties entirely. Similarly, enemy Foremen can generally be ignored as a low priority if the enemies either don't include Miners or you're doing something to render the Miners largely irrelevant. (ie nuking them out of existence, Blinding them, etc)

I really like the flavor of the Foremen/Miner interaction, it's just really unfortunate that the gameplay isn't worth indulging most of the time.

Bizarrely, the Foreman has the exact same lie as the Miner, where they don't have Night Sight but rather have a secret trait only for boosting Attack in underground battles.


Guard Droid
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 300
Leadership: 120
Attack/Defense: 25 / 25
Initiative/Speed: 6 / 3
Health: 100
Damage: 12 Physical
Resistances: 20% Physical, 80% Poison, -50% Magic
Talents: Harpoon (Reload: 1. Targets an enemy unit that is 2-5 tiles away in a straight line with no intervening obstacles. Drags it adjacent to the Guard Droid and attacks it for 10-14 Physical damage with no chance to counterattack), Beam of Light (Reload: 2. Targets an enemy unit up to 3 tiles out, and hits all units, friend or foe, in the intervening distance. Most units below Level 5 become afflicted with Helplessness and lose 30% of their Defense for 2 turns. Units with Night Vision as well as Beholders and Evil Beholders are Blinded instead. Undead units take 5-20 Physical damage instead)
Abilities: Shock (Basic melee attack has a 30% chance to Shock enemies), Mechanical (80% Poison resistance, -50% Magic resistance, cannot be Poisoned, Morale never changes, immune to mental effects, cannot be healed or resurrected by most effects), Armor (20% Physical resistance), Eyeless  (Immunity to Blind, Precision, and Greasy Mist. Also can detect invisible creatures)

New to Armored Princess. Interesting, their name internal to the code is droideka, suggesting Star Wars inspired the design? Either that or there's some entirely different explanation having to do with the game being Russian that I'm ignorant of. They look kind of like Destroyer Droids, in terms of being round and held up with a similar design of leg, so I'm personally inclined to suspect Star Wars influence, but it's not a given or anything.

Another interesting aspect of Droids (Both Guard Droids and Repair Droids) is the decision for them to not leave corpses. I'm kind of curious as to what drove that decision, honestly. Visual considerations? (The Droid design would be tricky to produce a death animation/pose that justifies the usual low-to-the-ground death result, thanks to their odd tire-esque shape) Not wanting Thorns to be able to use their corpses? Not wanting to have to do special-casing in general regarding necromancy and so on? Or... maybe it's some plot element?...

In any event, Guard Droids are the first of the actually good Dwarf units added by Armored Princess. They're a reasonably fast, respectably durable melee unit that can contribute damage without having to take damage, Beam of Light is really useful for locking down a wide variety of different units (And is honestly the only reason to pay attention to Night Vision as a trait), and as we'll be seeing in a minute being Mechanical gives them access to proprietary resurrection support, making it just fine to use them as tanks because you'll repair away the casualties before it actually costs you Gold or Grand Strategy progress. Mechanical also provides a variety of useful protections that make them difficult to bypass and also make it less viable to wear them down -if you saw the Extra covering unit damage types in The Legend, you would've seen how much more common Poison damage is than Fire damage, and the commonality of Burn vs Poisoning follows a similar trend, even into Armored Princess. ie Poisoning is very much the primary way enemies can inflict percentile damage on your forces, and Guard Droids being immune to this makes it much easier to keep their casualties to a minimum than if you were using a meatshield made of actual meat.

It's worth mentioning that Harpoon will drag a unit right over a Trap without triggering the Trap, unlike typical push/pull effects. I also frankly have no idea why Beam of Light's damage against Undead is Physical: I'd expect either Fire (stereotypes about eg vampires burning in the sun) or Magic (As the 'abstract/elemental that isn't Fire' damage type) instead. It's bizarre, and it's particularly weird how this results in it being very ineffective against Ghosts and Cursed Ghosts... especially given how Warriors of the North gives Ghosts and Cursed Ghosts a 'fears light' trait.

One particularly nice utility of Harpoon: in all the King's Bounty games, AI ranged units that find themselves next to one of your units will almost always step away and then attack the unit that was next to them. This means that even though it's technically not reliably possible to control what an enemy ranged unit targets in the way you can control melee unit targeting, in actual fact it's still essentially possible. The Guard Droid's base Speed and Harpoon's range is often enough to pull an enemy ranged unit next to it on the first turn, at which point it will prefer to target the Guard Droid... and since, as we'll be seeing, Guard Droid casualties are actually easy to undo, this is pretty ideal. This is impressive utility, with no real competition at that.

In AI hands, the Guard Droid is... erratic. They'll only ever use Harpoon if they start their turn with line of fire -if they have to move to get line of fire, they won't use Harpoon- and their second priority is very much to use Beam of Light with absolutely no regard to whether it will do something or not. When facing multiple separate Guard Droid stacks, the AI will frequently end up inflicting Helplessness 3 times (Or however many times is equal to the number of Guard Droid stacks on the field) on the same target, thus wasting the second two Beams of Light. More broadly, the AI doesn't try very hard to avoid breaking Blind, so even if you're bringing Night Vision-filled forces, what will often happen is Blind is inflicted three times on one of your units and then it takes chipping damage before it has the chance to miss its turn, thus completely wasting the Guard Droids' turns. Beam of Light is only a reasonably consistent problem if you're fielding an Undead-heavy force, and even there Beam of Light can end up doing worse damage than their base attack and the AI doesn't actually try to hit multiple targets. In fact, the AI is terrible about regularly catching its own units with Beam of Light!

On the other hand, if you're not mindful of Harpoon lines of fire and how they relate to Traps, you may find you get one of your units pulled into one of your Trapper Traps. If you get used to thinking of Beam of Light as irrelevant and leave a Night Vision unit to be Blinded by Beam of Light, that can cause serious trouble too. And of course if you are Undead-heavy, they can potentially do a lot of damage if you're not careful.

I didn't mean 'bad' when I said 'erratic'.

By the way, note that even though Miners and Foremen secretly don't actually have Night Sight, they still get Blinded by Beam of Light. Just to further the confusion, I guess.


Repair Droid
Level: 3
Hiring Cost: 250
Leadership: 80
Attack/Defense: 10 / 25
Initiative/Speed: 4 / 5
Health: 64
Damage (Ranged): 6-8 Physical
Damage (Melee): 10 Physical
Resistances: 20% Physical, 80% Poison, -50% Magic
Talents: Repair (Reload: 3. Heals and resurrects an adjacent Mechanical unit for 44 HP per Repair Droid in the healing stack, +10% for each rank in Neatness the player has)
Abilities: Flight, Archer (Range: 5), No Melee Penalty, Mechanical (80% Poison resistance, -50% Magic resistance, cannot be Poisoned, Morale never changes, immune to mental effects, cannot be healed or resurrected by most effects), Armor (20% Physical resistance), Eyeless  (Immunity to Blind, Precision, and Greasy Mist. Also can detect invisible creatures)

Notice that they're slightly short-ranged. Also notice that it largely doesn't hurt any because they're lightning-fast and fly.

Anyway, yeah, that's a reloading Talent for performing fairly significant resurrection in Droids. Repair Droids are the unit I was referring to when I said 'the unit some people consider to be the best/most broken unit in the game': Repair Droids make it far easier to avoid casualties, and are so good at this job that some people will actually run two half-strength Repair Droid stacks, that way they can reliably have them repair each other. Since they're flying ranged units with good Speed, they can also just kite many units all day long, so even though their actual per-turn damage is a little lackluster they're quite capable of contributing just on the basis of distracting and wearing down enemies. And they're surprisingly durable for a ranged unit in practice since most units do Physical damage.

Repair Droids are obviously best when paired with Guard Droids, but they're actually serviceable units even on their own, and reasonably interesting too.

Repair Droids are one of the most consistent units about illustrating that the AI doesn't really understand how to use high-Speed ranged attackers. It's not unusual for a Repair Droid to fly three tiles closer toward your forces, then back away one tile, then finally attack now that it can't spend AP on movement without ending its turn entirely. You can see similar behavior from any ranged unit, if its Speed ends up high enough thanks to Haste or the like, but it's basically a given with Repair Droids. It's mostly just goofy to see in action, but it does mean Repair Droids are slightly more likely to stumble into a Trap than you'd expect from a flying ranged attacker, among other intermittently-relevant scenarios.

Speaking more generally, Repair Droids are... erratic, just like Guard Droids, when used by the AI. Sometimes they'll undo 2 casualties on a Droid when they could've undone 24 casualties. Sometimes they'll flit around and never use Repair at all. Sometimes they'll actually do their job properly and massively set back your progress in killing a Droid. I've honestly never been able to identify any real pattern to this behavior: they're willing to move and then Repair, they're willing to move, land next to something that needs repairs, and then ignore it in favor of shooting one of your units, etc. There's no hard and fast rules that I can tell to what they'll do, Repair-wise. This is particularly important given that their damage output is, again, somewhat lackluster: Repair Droids that are taking potshots at your forces are generally creating less trouble for you than Repair Droids that are using Repair to undo dozens of casualties.

Do note that while their AI isn't perfect at this, they tend to try to stay outside of the immediate reach of your melee if they can. Slow melee is a really bad idea to take into a fight with Repair Droids, as they may never successfully engage the Droids if you're not providing support such as Haste, Teleport, etc. Repair Droids are fast enough trying to Slow them down isn't much help in this regard, too.

Note that the Repair Droid's melee attack being stronger than their ranged attack isn't hinted anywhere in the game except damage preview. This... really seems like something that should've actually been communicated to the player...

In any event, this gives Repair Droids the moderately unusual quality of being a ranged unit that should actually get into melee if they want peak damage output. This can be useful to know if, for example, your Repair Droids are close to finishing a stack with their ranged attack -moving into melee might be enough of a boost to actually wipe out the stack.


Engineer
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 1150
Leadership: 380
Attack/Defense: 25 / 32
Initiative/Speed: 5 / 2
Health: 180
Damage: 13-26 Fire
Resistances: 15% Fire
Talents: Create Droid (Charges: 2. Creates a Guard Droid or Repair Droid stack in an adjacent tile, type randomly chosen, with equal odds whose Leadership totals 100-120 per Engineer in the creating stack. For each point in 'Neatness' the Hero has purchased, increase the Leadership by 10%), Repair (Charges: 2. Heals and resurrects an adjacent allied machine-type unit for 88 HP per Engineer in the healing stack. For each point in 'Neatness' the Hero has purchased, increase the healing by 10%), Shock Grenade (Charge: 1. Ranged attack which does 5-20 Fire damage to a single target enemy and has a 25% chance to Burn it, but additionally is guaranteed to Blind all adjacent enemy units of Levels 1-3  for a single turn. Has an effective range of 7), Create Shock Grenades (Reload: 2. Only appears when out of Shock Grenades. Generates 1-2 Shock Grenades, with only a 10% chance to generate 2 charges)
Abilities: Fire Thrower (Can fire up to 3 tiles out, hitting all units in a line, with no chance for affected units to retaliate. 15% chance for any given hit unit to be Burned), No Melee Penalty, Mechanism Optimization (Allied Guard Droids and Repair Droids gain +5 Attack and +1 Speed), Alchemist (Shock Grenade is replaced with a reloading Talent to add a Charge to it, when completely used up)

The only new Dwarven unit in Orcs on the March. It's primarily a reskin of the Alchemist, graphically, but it actually looks a lot better than the Alchemist! That's unusual.

It's surprisingly accurate to think of the Engineer as the Alchemist+, even though they seem at first glance to have entirely different focuses. Alchemists frequently only have one, maybe two of their concoctions relevant in a given fight, while Shock Grenade is useful in the vast majority of fights, and the ability to reload it allows the Engineer to keep fighting at long range in more extended fights with not much worse pacing than the Alchemist. Meanwhile, being able to create meatshields is also very widely useful, and Mechanism Optimization also means the Engineer can be useful just by existing. The only real caveat to this is that Alchemists are far better at rapidly wearing oversized stacks down to more reasonable sizes, thanks to being able to inflict Poisoning on multiple targets at once at range 100% reliably.

Note that Shock Grenade's behavior is fairly unintuitive. If you want to Blind something, you absolutely must be targeting something adjacent to the unit you intend to Blind. The unit you actualy target is only damaged. It's similarly not clearly intuitive that it doesn't do damage to units adjacent to the target, but it's true anyway.

Engineers are an incredible unit for stalling and for helping ensure you get progress on Grand Strategy. They get to summon twice back-to-back, those summons are reasonably durable and can be repaired to further extend that durability, including that you'll usually get a Repair Droid summoned as one of your two Droids, and Shock Grenades can take problematic units out of the fight entirely for a couple of turns, such as large stacks of Bowmen. The manufactured Droids are completely disposable and yet take a while to put down, unlike eg Thorns, and depending on matchup may contribute to stalling safely yet further -such as a generated Guard Droid using Beam of Light to disable a Beholder- and Engineers can even contribute decent damage in safety if slow enemies get nearby them, or if rough terrain lets them get line of fire on a unit without the unit being able to actually reach them itself. Getting them early on is particularly appreciated, since Grand Strategy is at its most important early on and they're fantastic for getting it, even against battlegroups that include ranged units.

In enemy hands, Engineers are, again, erratic. They overall prefer to summon Droids, with Shock Grenade usage tending to occur if you cluster units such that multiple targets can be Blinded (Note that the AI doesn't seem to understand that Eyeless provides Blind immunity, where it does recognize such for Level-based protection), but I've seen them chuck a Shock Grenade against an isolated Fire-resistant target and also seen them summon Droids when they had a perfect chance to Blind 2 or more units. They're just plain unpredictable. Strangely, I've never seen an AI Engineer use Repair in any circumstance, not even when they conveniently started their turn adjacent to a Repairable unit.

As such, Engineers can be a giant pain or almost completely irrelevant based purely on weird AI whims, in no small part because their own personal durability is sorely lacking. They're very much reliant on their Droid creation to keep their side's Health totals high..

The relatively high Level of Engineers means it takes a long time to be able to shut them down with Spells, as eg Blind and Sheep require Spell Level 3 to hit them. This makes them one of a small pool of enemies you may seriously find yourself using Magic Shackles on, since Distortion 2 is enough for Magic Shackles to hit Level 4 units and Engineers are basically useless with their Talents disabled. This applies to the Alchemist as well, but Alchemists can be made less relevant with distractions (eg the Chaos Dragon distraction), where Engineers will usually elect to spawn Droids if there's any open tiles around them.

--------------------------

I quite like the Dwarven additions, in terms of shifting the 'character' of Dwarves away from 'generic medieval melee' and more toward 'steampunk/high technology for a fantasy setting'. This is a pretty typical way of making Dwarves distinctive in a fantasy setting, but that's because it works. This also ties fairly directly into their gameplay viability going up, so it's not like it's improving the narrative but hurting the gameplay or the like.

I do wish the Miner/Foreman dynamic worked better for the player, though.

Next time, we cover the Elves of Elon.

Comments

  1. Giants have 10% physical resistance in CW, may want to update that from "Generic" when you can (also you wrote in the Wotn segments for Giants "suddenly they have a little physical resistance" which probably should be here and not there. Still doesn't help them that much, unless one has something like the solid t2 boots "Ogre Sandals" which grant +2 def and more importantly +1 speed to Giants, Trolls, Ogre's and Ogre Chieftains (doesn't specify that but it works for them as well, albeit Chieftains in CW look like a hollow corpse relative to their likely broken Dark Side Power where they reign supreme with unchecked spammable Drains and potential 6 figure damage Power of the Hordes if boosted by Chaos Breath) which really helps bolster their terrible innate 1 move speed. Pity that in CW their Earthquake doesn't do some damage to soaring yet. Was considering a t5 army (which i know you loathe) of Ogre's, Trolls, Giants, Rune Mages, and Emerald Dragons (my personal fav dragon that did work in original early game AP roughly a decade ago, the one that you get from the cage in Rusty Anchor). The ogre sandals helps the otherwise slower melee units (Ogre's are actually blazing fast with adrenaline maxed at the start which is easy enough with the fixed onslaught and adrenaline at 2, and with drain they ultimately are even more mobile than their potential in Dark Side with succubus items galore providing move speed and the all powerful chaos breath), Mass Haste actually being Mass in CW instead of 7 tile radius really helps as well. Unfortunately Emerald Dragons hate Giants so that puts a damper on the party (and Voice of the Dragon 3 is a pipe dream to offset that), albeit i guess red dragons can suffice as a substitute (the extra initiative over emerald is nice, for 6>7 with Blue Dragon pet).

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  2. It's propably some English saying I simply don't know but "Driver's whip" sound pretty funny to me. It makes me imagine a Foreman literally whipping his miners so that they run faster :) In Russian it's just "Forced march".

    It seems to me that AR is somewhat less literal in it translation. "Beam of Light" is "Searchlight" in the Russian.
    "Repair Droid" is "Mechanic Droid". "Mechanic" is noun here. It's melee damage is 10-10 in all games, indeed higher than ranged damage but still weaker tha attack of Guard Droid.

    In addition to "Beam of Light", you have propably noticed that Droids' melee attack animated as electrical jolt yet also deal physical damage. I think devs had a "Dwarves as a race should never have any Magic-damage attack (except for Holy Water)" concept or something like that but with Droids it kinda gone wrong.

    Dwarven god statue existed in the Legend too. It addition to spells you mentioned it can also cast Bless on the Dwarves.

    For some reason, technology Dwarves never worked for me. Well, I just never could get the whole "badass Dwarves" thing in general. They will always be a comedic relief race to me.

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    1. 'Driver's whip' is a reference to using a whip to make a horse hurry (as in a stagecoach driver cracking the whip), and in general phrases like 'crack the whip' tend to be used in cases where the idea is that bosses are pushing their workers unreasonably hard or otherwise treating them in an inhumane way as part of the job. In sentiment 'forced march' doesn't carry as condemning a tone, in that it's understood that an army performing a forced march isn't necessarily a bad boss abusing their power, but can in fact be something soldiers choose to inflict on themselves as a matter of necessity. ("My home will be attacked before I can get there if I march at normal speed, and I don't want my family killed by invaders; I can't afford to rest.") So I'm curious now if the translation was attempting to retain 'tone' here (ie is a forced march something Russian pop culture associates with Bad Bosses, or something of that sort), or if the translation introduced that vaguely abusive undertone -I've always assumed that was there in the original, given that Dwarven workers grumbling about being worked a bit too hard is a regular thing with NPCs throughout the series, but I've had some cases of Russian games catching me off guard from a values dissonance issue. (eg the RTS Perimeter, whose ending made it clear to me that the Harkbackhood is supposed to be Bad Guys in this narrative, where I'd taken them as Obviously The Only Good Guys up to that point -and honestly have difficulty getting behind the intended interpretation even recognizing it)

      Yeah, I dunno why Beam of Light got translated that way. I'd always assumed it was an overly-literal translation of the original Russian or something, because it's very clunky in English. 'Searchlight' would be much more natural.

      And yeah, the electrical Physical attack did leap out at me, to the point that when I was first playing I honestly assumed Guard Droids did mixed Physical/Magical damage and was very surprised when I realized they did pure Physical. (I'm a little surprised I didn't comment on it in the post, in fact) I assume this is the Warhammer Fantasy influence at work, as Warhammer Fantasy has had its own issues from very obviously wanting its dwarves to be Not Magical, and I'm strongly confident these games are aware of and influenced by Warhammer Fantasy.

      I'll keep an eye out for the statue in The Legend and if I spot one I'll update the posts appropriately -it certainly has to be much, much more common in Armored Princess, as I've had a half dozen runs get through Kordar in The Legend without ever seeing such a statue.

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    2. No, "Forced March" have no abusive/bad boss association. It even sounds softer (so to speak) than in English - literally translated it's something like "march-dash". I guess localizers just decided that Dwarves are not oppressive enough.

      I'm pretty sure that the Harkbackhood are not supposed to be bad guys. Both them and Spirits are, hm, "heroes" of the story. The only bad guys are the Empire. I think there is even a Word of God for that but I wouldn't find it right now.

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    3. That said, I had some problems morality sides in Western hames too. Like High Men/Archons from Age of Wonders. They have "Pure good" alignment and thus supposedly the ultimate good guys but are pretty bastardly IMO. End their Good ending in AoW1 is one of the most soulcrushing in my opinion. On the other hand, Dark Elves (who are "Evil") are surprisingly easy to simpathize, through the "Evil" mark is deserved IMO. That said, I remember a good number of people who outright considered them to be the true heroes of the story and believed that if they are "Evil", than Humans should be too. And I can understand this side as well.
      In AoW3 Imperial Commonwealth instantly felt like bad guys to me yet are clearly not from developers' view. Their campaign tries to paint them as having originally great ideals that got corrupted but it just doesn't work for me for multiple reasons. But it's not the place. Sorry :)

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    4. Interesting on the forced-march bit.

      The ending of Perimeter has the last two Frames arrive on Earth, and then the Harkbackhood Frame sends a screaming evil face of Scourge at the Exodus Frame. I... find it very unlikely this is the part where cultural signaling differences are tripping me up on dev intentions, and it's the specific bit I'm talking about. Up to that point, I'd taken the Harkbackhood as the Obvious Heroes of the story between the Spirits being explicitly manipulative liars taking a 'religion is the opiate of the masses' approach to managing things, the Spirits being very controlling about the path stuff where they actively sabotage the Harkbackhood's attempts to go back down the chain (Instead of, say, phoning them up to say the Harkbackhood is making a mistake but not actively interfering if the Harkbackhood refuses to listen), and me being sufficiently used to American pop culture memes that them being the Rebels Raging Against The Proper Government tilted me to assuming they were the good guys. (This made it interesting to me that they used Scourge, since fielding 'monsters' is usually a Bad Guy Trope... I probably should've doubted my interpretation just for this reason, honestly)

      (It was particularly jarring to get the screaming face strongly signaling the Harkback are Bad Guys given that the Harkback and Exodus Frames arriving at the same destination is *objective proof* that the Harkback weren't in the wrong for wanting to go back; the Exodus is literally pointless!)

      I am unfortunately only limitedly familiar with the Age of Wonders games. I actually have everything except Age of Wonders 2, through a combination of giveaways and actually buying Shadow Magic, but every time I've tried to play them I've bounced off of them. That said, my limited experiences already had me raising my eyebrow at some of the moral stuff, and in fact that's been part of why I've bounced off them... so if I played through them properly I kind of suspect I'd agree with what you're saying here.

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    5. The screaming face is sort of a symbol of "He Who Fight Monsters" - Spirit apparently have (or once had) genuenily noble intention but where does it lead them? Now the same happens with Harkbackhood. But they both are still heroes of the story, atleast from the perspective of the game creator.
      People who really like Harkbackwood can also see it as "person inside, monster outside" - in opposite to the Exodus.

      Btw according to the Word of God, both creation of Harkbackwood and them and Exodus meeting each other in the same place was planned all along.

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    6. Eeeeh... I'm skeptical, but I'll readily admit the last few missions of Perimeter give me the vibe of the team running out of time and rushing through the most essential plot beats, where it's plausible the failure to clearly signal the Exodus isn't intended as clean heroes is a side effect of this rushing rather than because the devs did intend them to be clean heroes. Or I suppose it's possible the Exodus does have such signaling but it didn't come across that way to me and would be clearer to a Russian player.

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    7. First, ineed to clear up something. I heard a lot of mentions that English version simplified the whole story, up to cutting parts of it. Opinions differs how horrible the end result is. Is it true? Was there later re-localization with better result?
      Original version have a bunch of short stories on disk. For backstory. Does English version have them?

      You are correct - later part of the game was indeed rushed - some of the missions were wholly cut when devs run of time.

      You are the first person I see who considers Exodus to be "clean heroes". Literally the first one. Normally it's either "they both are equal", "screw Exodus, go Harkbackhood!" or "Exodus suck but atleast they know what they are doing".

      Spirits are literally Illuminati-like society, who for hundreds/thousands of years manipulated humanity for a grand purpose. Before the Exodus they used people as guiney pigs for researching/testing Psychosphere. They purposefully created the crisis on the Old Earth so they they could play saviours who will lead people to a new home. They led people in circles for generations and brainwashed them with the tales of a New Earth. And than they created Harkbackhood and made them cross the line to have a "monsterous invaders", from whom they will save the Earth when they will "come there as Masters"(c). They used even player as their instrument (they needed save/load to assure success), as they directly tell in their fourth-wall breaking monologue in the end.
      So, either English version cut A LOT of lore, or you have very... interesting... moral compass if you see them as "clean heroes".

      ...And than so called Perimeter 2 actually changed Exodus into ordinary oppressive assholes and Harkbackhood - into walking GoodIsDumb. 'Sigh'
      Add a joke about ex-wifes ruining stuff.

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    8. I have the Good Old Games version, and I don't... think it has such short stories? The manual doesn't, the other extras don't seem to include such, and I don't think installing the game put them in there anywhere... but I distinctly recall reading up on stuff like the Spirits being scientists who decided the religious approach was the way to keep people on track, which isn't in-game and certainly isn't in the manual, so I must've read some of that SOMEWHERE. The official website, maybe? It doesn't seem to exist anymore...

      I don't consider the Exodus to be clean heroes -that's a big part of why it bothered me to have the end of the game seem to be telling me the Harkback are The Bad Guys, as if I was forced at gunpoint to slot one of them into Good Guys and one into Bad Guys I'd absolutely place the Harkback as the good guys and the Exodus as the bad guys. But the final presentation of the game makes it seem like the game intends the Exodus to be cleanly heroic heroes.

      That said, it sounds like the English version did indeed cut/change a lot of lore. The backstory I read went like so:

      -Once upon a time, Earth was getting overpopulated and polluted. Scientists then discovered a parallel dimension in which time moves much faster, the Frames were built and loaded up with people, and off they went to chill in this parallel dimension while the Earth straightened itself out. Shortly into the journey, the scientists collectively decided that they would reframe everything into being a religious pilgrimage where they're Spirits guiding humanity to a new holy land, and promptly implemented this plan without bothering to consult with the non-scientists. An indeterminate number of generations pass, and then we meet up with the start of the game, with the Frames early in their journey and the religious brainwashing plan having apparently worked basically perfectly. (Until the first Harkback Frame murders their Spirits, and the Emperor enslaves his Spirits, anyway)

      All the stuff you're laying out of a longer conspiracy and whatnot just isn't in the English version. There's a pretty lengthy monologue toward the end, but while I'd need to replay the game to be sure, I don't recall any leaning on the fourth wall, nor claims about the Harkback being a deliberately-engineered revolution on the part of the Spirits, or anything like that. In the English version, the Spirits largely seem to be trying to do right by humanity as a whole, no weird ulterior motives or conspiracy plots. (Assuming one is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on the part where they made themselves rulers of everything and so on -I'm not, but I know there's people who would accept as true the For The Greater Good logic presented)

      Now I'm wondering if this is why Emperor's Testament came across as so off to me -like maybe its English version wasn't brought in line with Perimeter 1's English version when it came to intended lore and whatnot, and I could tell it was being different but didn't have the info to contextualize the different-ness properly.

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    9. ...Okay, where to begin...

      Perimeter is the second (not chronologically) game of this unuverse. The first is called Vangers.

      In-universe official backstory is that Spirits are humans born mystical abilities, who always existed among mankind but only now decided to unite and reveal their existance. They range from prestige scientists to tribal shamans. And yes, Illuminati (literally) were Spirits too. A lot of great people through human history were actually Spirits. Now they openly bring progress and stuff. Nanotech, force tech and genetics get a huge boost from Spirits' mystical knowledge. Among their discoveries is Psychosphere (aka Sponge), a dimension(s) that can be influenced and shaped by subconsciousness. This is the place that inspired all the myths about "spiritual worlds". In the past only Spirits themselves could get there by temporaly leaving their bodies but now, everyone will get a chance to travel there in flesh! At first everyone found it to be awesome place for research, privacy or just getting some land and creating a world of your dreams. It was fount that in theory Sponge can be used to travel to other galaxies and potential colonization of other planets.

      Than, due to human minds being too chaotic and full of nasty stuff, Scourge (Taint in Russian) appeared, bringing mutations, monster, voices of dead and other sweet things. It was controlable at first but soon grown too strong, overwelmed human colonies and started to leak into Earth. It was decided to just close all the corridors and destroy entrance to the Sponge. There were anough people unhappy with this desicion, angry that humanity will lost such marvel because of some rotten minds. Things on Earth bacame more and more chaotic when Spirits declared that they are leaving this screwed up planet to travel through the Sponge in search of a better world. A lot of people joined them and accepted their leadership. Of course, to keep the Scourge at bay, people need to have very disciplined minds but Spirits, Propthets of the Exodus, are ready to share their wisdom. People need to obey their every word through, without second thoughts, if they want to survive. Thus Exodus was born. Harkbackhood (simply Return in Russian) and the Empire creation is as simple as you wrote.

      In truth, Spirits manipulated humanity for all of it's history. Scourge was known to them and it leaking into Earth was part of their plan. As was creation of Harkbackhood and, according to out of game source (so not everyone consider it canon. Most do), the Empire. Harkbackhood will try to return back to Earth, falsely believeing that they go against Spirits' wishes and following their own will, and merge with the Scourge on their way. By the time they will return to Earth, they will become monsters atleast in flesh, and will be seen as horrible invaders. Exodus travel to Earth as well; they will arrive some time later and "save" the devastated Earth from invading abominations. Exodus and Harkbackhood arrived at the same time through, and that is not according to plan. The Empire (out of game source again) was supposed to be the faction of people who will decide to remain in the Sponge and will take care of it, so to speak. The Emperor was not part of the plan, the same with his aggressive assimilation thing.

      The truth behind the truth is that Spirits are not even truly humans (or humans at all). They are an otherwordly race (or descendants of said race and humans) that fight against another race called "Infernals" or "Others". Infernals are "higher creatures" or "outer will" that change the worlds but cannot directly enter them. They use the universe for their experiments (often involving destroying civilizations) and have unknown endgame, but seem to be sort of social darwinists. Spirits consider them to be "cancerous tumor" of the universe. Mechanical Messiah is their servant, through he does not truly understand it.

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    10. So, Spirits are horrible totalitaric manipulators that want to take over the Earth and rule the humanity, but they do it to fight the true evil. Harkbackhood are blind victims of plans they can't even imagine, force to become monsters, but in heart they just hopeful lost people, even if ugly outside.

      The Spirits' end monologue is actually styled after a "Triumphant Villain Monologue"(tm) in the Russian version and make Exodus look quite villanous. Creepy Harkbackhood face can even be seen as hopeful "you won't get away with it, you bastards".

      If you want, I can translate the whole end monologue for you (it's long through). Or give you a Russian version so you could, I dunno, google-translate it youself if you are still sceptical.

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    11. Also, according to a guy who claim to be familiar with English version (he really didnot like it), it have Nomad (traveling consciousness and the protagonist of the game) being completely cut. With you playing just some random unrelated Legates. Is it true?

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    12. I think for the Empire sections you're actually playing an enslaved Spirit, but I might be misremembering that part -for the Exodus and Harkbackhood sections you're just a Legate, definitely, yes. Presumably a different one per Frame, not that such is ever explicitly stated; in general (English?) Perimeter isn't big on actually explaining terminology and whatnot, where you're expected to infer things from how words get used and whatnot. (eg nobody actually tells you what a Legate is supposed to be in this context)

      So yeah, the English version is... almost completely disconnected from the Russian version. The English version strips out all the supernatural-ish elements aside the Sponge itself (The Spirits are just regular scientists claiming to be supernatural advisors, for example), which gets reframed to be about as Straight Scifi as you can get while still retaining the Scourge -and even there, the presentation on 'bad thoughts make Scourge' is such that I spent a while unsure if this was supposed to be more Spirit lies. (That Empire automated Frames don't have to worry about Scourge proved it was more or less accurate, but my point is the English version is much more ambiguous on the nature of the Scourge, in a way that makes more mundane scenarios plausible) The Exodus backstory is radically changed, including radically changing the picture painted of the Spirits. The Infernals/Others aren't referred to at all. Even the monologue bit is changed in a strange way -the English version has the Harkback Terminal doing a weird monologue at the player toward the end of the game, not a Spirit. (Not that I recall the contents of this monologue, but... I'm confused as to why they kept in a lengthy monologue if they changed who's giving it and removed the original reason for it to exist?)

      The game is sufficiently trippy I didn't attribute too much significance to it, but in retrospect I probably should've been more suspicious of the 'we've destroyed our environment; let's run away instead of fixing it' background bit: I see variations on that constantly in US scifi, but other than Perimeter I've yet to see fiction of any kind from outside the US include such a beat. So... I really should've been suspicious of translator insertion on at least that bit, instead of having it leap out at me and then ignoring it anyway.

      I'm also annoyed to learn the plot was forced into being 'straight' scifi; US pop culture is obnoxiously prone to this kind of thing, with homegrown fiction often contorting itself in inane ways because eg they want to write ghosts in their story but insist on a non-supernatural explanation, never mind that their 'scientific' explanation is nonsense. (I complain about System Shock 2 doing this on this site, for example) Translations doing it isn't any better.

      A translation of the monologue seems like a lot of effort for little payoff; we've firmly established the differences are much vaster than 'The English version made the Spirits seem less overtly villainous'. It'd be maybe interesting to compare to the weird Harkback Terminal monologue, but I'd have to either get a run to that point again (Which would take a while) or see if there's a video covering it somewhere online. (I'm not up that digging right now)

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    13. ...Sorry if this sounds rude it's just retarded. This "localization". It's almost another game - a worse one.

      I knew that Perimeter 2 was so lame and primitive in part because of the influence of a British studio "Codemasters", who repeted that "simpler setting=better setting" and "trippy=bad".
      I knew the negative stereothype about westerners (English-speaking especially) living in the own bubbles and prefering everything simple, conformic and dumbed down.

      But this is just way too idiotic. Is English version literally just "scientists fly through wacky worlds because they want new home and fight rebels along the way"?

      Protagonist of the game is a thing called Nomad. It's a bodiless consciousness that can posess people and assume control of them. During the game it posess various Legates of the Exodus, Harkbackhood an the Empire.
      "Legate" is the one who leads a Frame by the way. He protects and moves the Frame but have no power inside it.
      During the final part of the end monologue Spirit Terminal says that Nomad is actually their creation and it is the representation of you - the player, creature from the other side of the monitor. They used you because you immortal in regards of their world and easily controllable though missions and objectives. That said, when they say it (I actually forgot about it and only remembered when checked this day), name changes from "Spirit Terminal" to "Appeal of the Infernals". Considering Parafin's (from Vangers) words that the whole "open Corridors into the Sponge" idea was put in the Spirits' head by Infernals, the Exodus may be just as much of blind maniplated fools as Harkbackhood.

      You are propably do not remember it anymore but still - if the final monologue is given Harkbackhood (what the...), do they behave like gloating villains too? Or they changed it to some heroic "we did it!"? And than CREEPY FACE lol.

      Also, if there are no mentions of Infernals, what does the Mechanical Messiah (from the addon) seek? Does he just randomly wander trough the Sponge or something?

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    14. I mean, we started with me complaining about Perimeter's writing being bad, unaware that the localization massively overhauled it.

      I wouldn't summarize it that way myself, but yeah, basically. I commented on broader US scifi writing trends, and English Perimeter conforms pretty closely to a lot of them -I can compare it to Outpost 2 and Alpha Centauri, for example, in terms of 'Earth was doomed, so we fled to another world, then during the journey political stuff came to a head and we split into multiple factions that all think the other factions are wrong-headed, and thus our game has conflict'. And much like Alpha Centauri, there's one viewpoint that looks to be the creator pet viewpoint they are trying to press as Objectively Correct -the Exodus, in this case, where the narrative never really acknowledges that the Spirits directly made a lot of the bad stuff happen (eg the one moment where I feel the Harkback really Crosses A Line is when they attack an Exodus Frame to steal its Spirits because the Root World portal can ONLY be activated by a Spirit -where this is 'the Spirits created this situation by deliberately putting such a lock on the portal'. If they weren't such controlling jerks the Harkback would've had zero reason to do this; throughout the game the Harkback is quite consistent about just trying to go to the Root Worlds), and there's multiple attempts to suggest the Harkback and Empire are just objectively wrong about things (In addition to being morally wrong, in the Empire's case) while no such attempts are made in regards to the Exodus.

      The final monologue was weirdly gloating villain-y, yeah -it contributed to me taking the final cinema the way I did. But yeah, I don't remember the details -it's been more than a decade since I originally beat the game. I've been meaning to replay it for a while...

      I dunno! I found base Perimeter hard to follow, and I found Emperor's Testament essentially incomprehensible! I was theorizing this whole mess might be why Emperor's Testament felt off precisely because it was extra-confusing in a way that would make sense if either it stayed true to the source material (And thus wildly different from what I experienced in Perimeter) or if it struggled to force the source material to fit into the localization's framework. (As I've seen in older anime; it was policy for a while for official localizations to try to reframe everything as if it's occurring in the USA rather than in Japan, and the cracks would show through intermittently because the source material taking place in Japan was too thoroughly embedded in the premise and ongoing events) I was actually considering quickly replaying Emperor's Testament (Since it's not very long) to see if I found it more comprehensible or the like in the context of this conversation.

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    15. This all still feels really weird to me. 'sigh'
      Thanks for the discussion.

      P.S. Emperor's Testament actually has simpler story than the original, as it's centered on a single side and single character. Than again, if they did not chaged it's story after pretty much rewriting the original...

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    16. Having replayed through a good chunk of Emperor's Testament now (I'd forgotten how many of its missions take less time to complete than to be briefed on...), yeah, I found it so confusing originally because it's sticking to the original story. (And also it's really shoddily translated... spelling and grammar errors abound, the world names are almost all messed-up, the sentences are rarely natural English constructions...) The entire concept of a Mechanical Spirit makes more sense in the context of Spirits being a separate class of beings rather than just a scientist caste pretending to be more-than-human, the Mechanical Messiah makes direct references to the Infernals/Others and clearly lays out stuff like them being opposed to the Spirits and having been behind a lot of stuff, etc. Even the opening cinema makes more sense, with the anonymous narrator talking about The Mystery Of Where The Emperor Came From -that's just bizarre in the context of English Perimeter, but in the context of all these conspiracy plots it's... well, I consider it inane anyway, but an inane that I see a lot from stories with big conspiracy plots. (Such stories are often reluctant to acknowledge that the vast conspiracies could just... miss something, feeling like there has to be A Deeper Reason)

      I am curious how the Mechanical Messiah comes across in the original Russian. Even knowing that it's referring directly to Actual Plot Concepts instead of babbling randomly about complete nonsense, it still comes across as... unhinged? Paranoid? I'm not sure if that's just the incredibly ugly translation or if that tone is actually pretty accurate.

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  3. The final mission can be quite a difficulty spike. When I firsp played it I was prettu much lost :)

    Much disliked Perimeter 2 explains the origins of the Emperor. We don't know what how much of it matches the plans of the original writer through. It was not supposed to be a forever-mistery or random thing without explanation through.

    Not even close. Mechanical Messiah is a colllected, determined and inspired person. He becomes more agitated when he talks about Infernals' trails and he sounds sad in the end but generally he is pretty calm guy. Not "machine-calm" through, despite his nature, he clearly IS a person, a somewhat poetic one in fact. He definitely likes being the prophet and clearly believes in his destiny. He is a pretty cool and charismatic guy IMO, despite who he is.

    It's hard to me to imagine a unhinged/paranoic Mechanical Messiah. I'm actually find it interesting - is he portrayed as unbalanced or psychotic or something? Does he fears Spirits/Scourge or is unsure of himself? Or something else?

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    1. I wasn't really talking about difficulty, actually -one of the original Perimeter's hardest missions is the core-capture gimmick mission, and win or lose it's short- though it certainly spends a while being easy as well. Mostly I meant that it has a lot of missions with a super-fast objective, like charging the Spiral being an instant victory.

      I actually haven't played Perimeter 2 and would prefer to not be spoiled on it -though admittedly there's the question of how it got localized.

      Sounds pretty unfortunate that Emperor's Testament got such a shoddy localization...

      I don't think it's really intentional -I'm pretty sure it's just fairly literal translations. (I'm honestly wondering if a native English speaker was involved in this translation at all) Like, you talk about him being poetic, and I suspect a lot of his dialogue is stuff that flows well and sounds fine in Russian, and then it got run through Google Translate or whatever and the result sounds like he's high or something. He talks about feeling his enemy's intentions through the thrum of the Sponge and whatnot, and it wanders back and forth between 'stock cringe-y tropes about supergeniuses and psychic characters' ("I know what my enemies are trying to do off of very little information in a way that strains plausibility") and 'I can feel the UNIVERSE in my VEINS, maaaan'. That it's all monologues delivered in a perpetually flat tone contributes -it makes large parts of what he says feel disconnected from reality, and it means no emotional context is delivered, where him talking about the Infernals feels less like 'I have discovered a vile influence that enrages me!' (Or whatever the exact intended tone is) and much more like 'Hey man, wouldn't it be... like... amazing if demons were behind everything? That would be wild and bad, right?' The overall result just feels a LOT like watching someone with mental health issues muttering to themselves alone in a room about the conspiracy out to get THEM, PERSONALLY.

      (It doesn't help that I honestly can't tell what he means by 'the slaves of the Spiral'. Initially I thought he meant the Exodus. Then he said stuff that didn't fit that, so I guessed he meant the infected Vice Frames, or the Scourge... and then he said stuff contradicting those theories)

      I'm assuming the fully flat tone isn't faithful to the original Russian, simply because ALL the voice acting is flat, including the Spirits trying to convince the Legate to betray the Mechanical Messiah, and the Emperor being himself.

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    2. Oh, sorry then. Like I said earlier, Perimeter 2 was made with help of a British studio (that was also publisher in the West), so it should be better translated. It's also the shortest and easiest game of the series.

      English version of the Messiah seems to be pretty funny :) Almost like a parody of the original one.
      "I'm divine messiah, my faithful de-Legat. I'll take care of you and you'll help me. But our enemy is strong so we should be careful and thoughtful."
      Meanwhile in another dimension: "I FEEL THE UNIVERSE, BRO! SUPA POWA! You should try some of this Scourge weed too!" :)

      Btw, is the Messiah atleast friendly towards de-Legat in English? In Russian version it creates a nice contrast between him ("with me you are finally safe") and the Emperor (who treats you almost like a slave).

      Yeah, English versions of the games must feel truly "....WHAT" inducing :)

      Mechanical Messiah does not hate the Infernals - he finds them mysterious but interesting. Plus, they are enemies of the Spirits and thus potential allies. He does not know about their grand role.

      Slaves of the Spiral are the Exodus. What exactly does he tell in the English version that contradicts it?

      Yes, Russian version does not have omnipresent flat tones. The closest propably is Exodus Terminal, but she is more like "neutral voice with subdued emotion" than flat. Harkbackhood guy (normally an eager and resolved young man) with flat neutral voice is especially hard to imagine.

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    3. I can certainly imagine someone laughing themselves silly if they experienced Emperor's Testament's English version after its Russian version...

      English Mechanical Messiah doesn't really come across as friendly/protective, no. He's very clear that he considers his assorted minions disposable servants whose greatest value is to serve him; the bluntest example so far is when he informs a Vice Frame that it's going to pretend to be him to take the hit from the Spirit's 'lash', and presents this as 'you should feel so grateful you can be useful by dying in my place'. He has a couple moments where he talks about freeing his minions from their former masters, but in the context of his overall behavior it ends up feeling a bit like a slaver 'rescuing' someone from a not-great workplace by, y'know, enslaving them. It all feels a lot like someone deliberately writing a cult leader and doing their best to write the cult leader as a self-aggrandizing jerk who thinks his cultists are all idiots who can't accomplish anything on their own...

      Interesting. English Mechanical Messiah talks about the Infernals like they're a sinister force whose influence on the Sponge is obviously nefarious, albeit a nefarious force he's willing to steal the technology of. (The Electro Lab) The vibe I've gotten is that he actually thinks they're worse than the Spirits, in terms of being bad news.

      It's probable I'm being thrown by direct literal translation breaking English conversational rules -there was a point where he was talking about the slaves of the Spiral immediately following on from talking about an Exodus Frame, where the overall flow was 'this is a change in topic'. ("This Exodus Frame is a problem, and also the slaves of the Spiral are a problem", but not quite that direct)

      I don't... think the Harkback show up in Emperor's Testament? I know they don't get mechanical representation, anyway. It sounds like English Perimeter at least got the tone of the Exodus and Harkback 'voice of god' pretty faithful, though; the Harkback 'voice of god' is absolutely the most eager of the bunch, and the Exodus one is 'neutral and calm' without going into robotic.

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    4. Well, the Messiah is not equal to anyone - he can treat former Emperor's Vice Frames as expendable if situation demands. He is much warmer towards the de-Legat that protected him since his "birth".

      Than it's one more of the localisation's big fails. Messiah clearly sees them as potentially good guys and victims of Spirits. And he is very clear that Spirits are the ultimate evil from his perspective.
      What about the whispering Spirit than? The one that tries to convince you to turn back against the Messiah? In Russian one of his arguments is that Infernals are the ultimate evil that almost destroyed Earth and humanity once before Spirits stopped them. Does he just go to something like "see, Messiah plays with bad stuff even through he knows it's bad!"? Btw does he also tells that Spirits are the only who truly love you and the like?

      I misread your previuos post as "Perimeter games in general have everyone speak in flat voice".

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    5. In English Emperor's Testament at least, it was a Vice Frame AI that helped the Mechanical Messiah come into being. The only de-legate involved so far is an Exodus Frame that gets captured on the Mechanical Messiah's orders.

      The whispering Spirit says that only the Spirits truly love humanity, yeah. I haven't seen that Spirit talk about Infernals yet, but I'm also not done with the campaign. I'm guessing he'll get to it later.

      Ah, okay. The first Perimeter actually has really good voice acting in English. Most characters are certainly reserved, but not emotionless, and it's very clear that eg the Spirits are genuinely supposed to be pretty calm. (Or really good at presenting like they are) Emperor's Testament in specific is where all the voice acting is flat, yeah.

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    6. In Russian version Messiah uses word "de-Legat" for both his "caretaker" and the former Exodus guy. And why shoudn't he? Vice Frames were led by Legats too.
      Through he only calls other Vice Frames just that, Vice Frames.

      I actually meant specifically our de-Legat. In Russian there is a dialogue where he says how Spirits truly love specifically you/him. Supposedly unlike Messiah. But I guess it's not important. And you alredy said that in English Messiah isn't that loving in the first place.

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    7. Hmmm. It's possible I misunderstood something, but... I'm pretty sure in English he only starts saying 'de-Legate' after the Exodus Frame is captured, and only in relation to that Frame. And I'd been under the impression Vice Frames were purely automated, with no human presence at all; are they supposed to be controlled by cybernetically enslaved humans? (Since I do know that's the Emperor's thing)

      Ah. No, in English the Spirit hasn't said 'we love you, the individual we are currently talking to', at least not yet. It's been much more ideological, an argument that basically the de-Legate should turn on the Mechanical Messiah out of loyalty to humanity. The framing has been kind of funny/interesting to me, actually, as the Spirit's dialogue isn't, say, trying to claim that the Mechanical Messiah will enslave humanity or anything like that, but rather positions things as if the Spirits and Mechanical Messiah are both intending to shepherd humanity and the Mechanical Messiah is a worse choice in... a practical sense, rather than a moral one? It gives a vibe more like somebody up for an election trying to convince their potential voters to not vote for the other candidate because they'll be less competent at the job. Even the 'only the Spirits truly love humanity' fits in surprisingly well to this vibe, like the Spirit is saying 'the Mechanical Messiah is a machine and so can't feel real love', even though I assume the intent is more along the lines of 'the Mechanical Messiah is lying to you when it says it loves humanity'. I'm assuming this vibe is wholly accidental, both because of the overall shoddiness of the translation but also because basically anytime a story feels like it's going for such a non-standard vibe it ultimately becomes clear I just read too much into sloppy word choice or the like.

      I'm also starting to wonder if the translators for Emperor's Testament misunderstood things outright, in addition to overly-literal translations and whatnot marring it, as it seems like they straight-up misapplied basic terminology and whatnot in a consistent way.

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  4. Everyone still call Emperor's cyborg Vice Frames' commanders 'Legates' in the Russian version in both the original game and the addon.

    ...Mechanical Messiah never says that 'he' loves humanity in general? Towards the end he pretty much says the opposite - he wants to 'replace' it with something better. The whispering Spirit's arguments are basically "you are going the wrong way personally AND betray your own race, entangled by lies and false love of the Messiah, who just uses you. We guide and take care of humanity (and you are STILL a part of it), and we love you, genuinely, even when you are our enemy. Oh, and Messiah's cool mysterious Infernals/Others are actually world-destroying monsters."

    Yeah, it seems so.

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    1. Interesting. In English it's never explicitly addressed, but gets talked about as if Vice Frames are more fundamentally different from the regular Imperial Frames, with everyone treating it like there's no living humans aboard a Vice Frame.

      The Mechanical Messiah hasn't said it loves humanity in English either -I forgot to explicitly note that the Spirit's dialogue speaking as if the Mechanical Messiah did so is one of the more direct examples of the shoddiness of Emperor's Testament's translation, precisely because the 'the Mechanical Messiah is lying to you!' dialogue is claiming things that didn't happen. (In my original run-through, I wasn't sure if this was supposed to be evidence of the Spirit acting on bad information)

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  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. Hm... New to this, but didn't seem to be possible to edit and reading my comment, I wasn't quite happy with it. I can confirm with absolute certainty that the Dwarven Statue isn't new in AP. I recently completed KB The Legend and moved on to Armored Princess and it was familiar to me already.

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    2. Yeah, the site comment system doesn't support edits. And yeah, been meaning to update the statue commentary -probably going to shuffle this bit off to The Legend post and tweak it, basically.

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  6. Miner's Strike lasts until the end of his next turn.

    Canoneer's hidden stuff is unchanged from the Legend. Siege Gun special attack damage is the same 12-20.

    When Alchemist creates new potions (adds charges to his talents), he has 90% chance to create 1 and 10% chance to create 2.
    Fire Water minimum damage is not reduced and is the same as it was the Legend.

    Like Miner, Foreman actually has Undeground, not Night Sight. It will remain unchanged in later games too. So no attack bonus at night, but no blind from Droid's Beam of Light either.

    Repair Droid repairs 44 hp per droid, not 40.

    Engineer's Shock Grenade has only 25% chance to apply Burn. Just like Alchemist potions, at has only 20% damage penalty at far range. Recharging is similar as well - 90% chance of getting 1 charge, 10% chance of getting 2.
    Create Droid has equal chances for either of them.

    Tell me if something is unclear or if I missed something.

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    1. I was wrong, Miner and Foreman are not immune to blind from Droid's Beab of Light. The reason for this is that they are classified as 'Night Vision'-type units (in the same way as 'Humanoid'- or 'Beast'). Even through they don't actually have proper Night Vision.
      And Beam of Light just checks for type, not for actualy having or not having an ability.

      Theis whole situation is really strange. I could understand if it was specifically Miner's problem - it would simply mean that him not getting attack bonus at night is a bug that was never fixed. But no, Foreman is a new unit for AP and have exactly the same unique condition ('Night Vision' shown in his in-game ability list and he is classified as 'Night Vision creature' without actually getting attack bonus at night, only undeground). And it will remain so through all the series. Well, Dark Side doesn't have 'Night Vision creature' classification anymore, but the rest is the same.

      So it look like it was made on purpose. Just... why? Really, why?
      It essentially makes Miner and Foreman slightly worse than they look, but is pretty unnoticable, unless someone randomly decide to test Night Vision for various units or direcly check the code.
      It may sound silly but for some reason this thing bugs me for hours.

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    2. Updated stuff including The Legend post.

      And yeah, I'm pretty confused. The English version of each game has a lot of descriptions that are basically lies, but they're translation oopsies. This is just... the devs lying to the player for no clear reason. Which is out of character to the series, in addition to being frustrating. It feels like there's gotta be a weird story there.

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    3. You still have mention of Giants dealing double damage against Emerald Dragons. I still don't know where did you got this idea but it is not true for all games of the series.

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    4. Huh. I only missed that in the Armored Princess post. Weird. Corrected now, in any event.

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