Armored Princess Rage Analysis


Where in The Legend you had four 'Spirits of Rage' that each leveled separately and each had four skills, with 'rest' periods denying you access to four specific skills at a time, in Armored Princess your Baby Dragon is the only element to Rage. One experience bar, one set of 9 skills. (Technically down from 12 in The Legend, but the actual variety is up due to a lack of redundancy across Spirits) Notably, this means Rest periods greater than 1 completely deny you access to Rage for the number of turns in question... unless you take advantage of Awaken Dragon, of course. On the other hand, there's no longer dealing with the weird meta-management issue of trying to feed experience to a given Spirit, which is nice.

One of the more significant yet non-obvious changes Armored Princess makes to Rage is that it alters Rage 'rot' to be noticeably slower. Back in The Legend, it wasn't particularly realistic to try to build Rage in one fight to then carry it into another, presumably-harder fight to use there, because unless the two units were extremely close the Rage would usually drain to zero, or at least to something like 2 Rage, before you got into that second fight.

On the other hand, it can make actual play extremely tedious, as the net result is that you spend a lot more time waiting for your Mana to refill if you don't use Fast Travel or manually refill you Mana. Fortunately, this issue tends to fade as you get further into the game for various reasons, but it can be fairly off-putting when you're first getting into the game and don't yet know it'll get better.

At the beginning of the game, you're asked to choose between colors for your Baby Dragon. Which color you pick provides a minor stat bonus, chooses which Rage ability other than Crushing Blow they start with, and changes the Baby Dragon's appearance. The options are...

+1 Initiative to animals and Dragons. Begins with the Mana Accelerator Rage ability.

The best choice. While its benefits depend on you using certain kinds of units, they include a lot of useful units. Critically, the benefit doesn't drop off in importance, yet is powerful at the very beginning of the game, particularly as you're more-or-less guaranteed to get Royal Snakes early on, which are already an excellent unit.

+5 to max Rage. Begins with the Mana Accelerator Rage Ability.

Well. It's an option, I guess. I'm not sure why you'd pick it, unless you were picking form over function, and even then the Red Baby Dragon doesn't look as good as the Blue.

+1 Attack. Begins with the Ball of Lightning Rage ability.

I like the Alien Baby Dragon's appearance (okay that's not actually it's name, I just wish it was), but +1 Attack is terrible, and it's not the only source of Ball of Lightning. There's not really any reason to pick it other than aesthetic.

+1 Intellect. Begins with the Treasure Searcher Rage Ability.

+1 Intellect is not great, but it's useful in the early game, and this is the only Baby Dragon that starts with Treasure Searcher. Getting Treasure Searcher early is definitely nice, but I don't think it's really worth the sacrifice of the Blue's Initiative bonuses. Still, it's the alternative I can most see a decent argument for, such as if you're doing a challenge run that for whatever reason refuses to use animals and Dragons.

+1 Defense. Begins with the Stone Wall Rage Ability.

NEXT.

... +1 Defense is awful -you should always be endeavoring to avoid taking damage in the first place, and 1 Defense is so tiny its effect will always be drowned out by damage variance- and Stone Wall is less useful than just killing things so they can't hurt you, unless you're doing shenanigans against badly out-of-depth foes. In which case you probably will level to get it naturally from a different Baby Dragon anyway. It's tied with Treasure Searcher for earliest-to-unlock Rage Ability anyway, so you're not even getting Stone Wall notably early.

+2% chance for units to get a critical hit. Begins with the Mystic Egg Rage ability.

Literally the only reason I can see to consider this is if you think Mystic Egg is a gamebreaker at the beginning of the game.

It isn't, by the way.

+5 to max Mana. Begins with the Ball of Lightning Rage Ability.

Again, just take Blue. It's more useful to anyone who's concerned with spending Mana. The primary advantage it has is that Ball of Lightning takes a bit to show up, and 5 max Mana is more useful than a point of Attack.

------------------------

Ultimately my biggest disappointment with the colors mechanic is that I initially thought, from the way the game framed it, that whatever Rage ability a color got was impossible to acquire through leveling. That would've made for an interesting and nuanced set of choices, and given the game an extra layer of replay value. As-is, it's in this nasty sourspot: if it were just affecting the color, then you'd pick what you liked and that would be a cool touch, if totally irrelevant to gameplay. Instead it's badly balanced so that there's only really one color that makes sense to pick for mechanical reasons, rendering the others basically wasted art asserts, not to mention all the other labor that went into setting up the option to choose a color in the first place.

That disappointing start thankfully fails to set the tone for the Rage system in Armored Princess. In basically every other regard, the game has drastically improved Rage!

Note that the 'required level' on some upgrades/unlocks is the required level of the Baby Dragon, not of Amelie.

Also note that experience mechanics work much like they do in The Legend, just Rage has only one experience meter instead of four separate ones. The main change beyond that is that class-based experience modifiers have been made less impactful; instead of experience being 100%/80%/50% for Warrior/Paladin/Mage runs, it's 100%/90%/70% for Warrior/Paladin/Mage runs. Not that the Mage had that much difficulty leveling Spirits in The Legend, mind, but hey. In any event, this is the last time this component of experience is changed; Warriors of the North and Dark Side retain 100%/90%/70% for their red/green/blue class or character choices.


Crushing Blow

Basic stats
Damage: 90-100 Physical
Rage: 4
Experience: 3
Pushback: 1

Crushing Blow involves picking a single target with a direction attached. That target takes Physical damage, and if it's below Level 4 it also gets pushed in the direction you picked some number of tiles. It's reasonably useful to think of Crushing Blow as an attack performed by a unit, said unit happening to be your Baby Dragon, as a lot of similar rules apply: you can't attack 'from' occupied tiles or out-of-bound locations, influencing your options for pushing, and also meaning a fully surrounded unit is actually not targetable. You don't have to worry about Traps stopping your Baby Dragon, so it's not fully comparable, but it can help acclimate you to Crushing Blow's rules.

Crushing Blow itself is Armored Princess' basic single-target Rage attack that you start the game with, comparable to Zerock's Smashing Sword or Sleem's Poisonous Spit, only it's actually good.

Part of this is that it has better damage scaling, starting roughly comparable to Smashing Sword in raw damage but rapidly climbing from there. The other, bigger part is that it has the utility effect of pushing a target built in. This can be used to delay slow-but-problematic stacks (eg Bears, Ancient Bears), shove enemies out of melee range of your ranged attackers, push an enemy into a chokepoint to prevent other enemies from passing through, shove recalcitrant enemies into Traps you intended for them to walk into that they instead walked around.... Crushing Blow's utility is tremendous, largely limited by your own creativity.

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 130-150, Rage: +1, Experience: 5
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 200-300, Rage: +2, Experience: 8
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 400-500, Rage: +3, Experience: 13, Pushback: 2
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 800-900, Rage: +4, Exp: 19 (Requires Level 10)
Damage 5 Upgrade: Damage: 1300-1400, Rage: +5, Experience: 26 (Requires Level 14)
Damage 6 Upgrade: Damage: 1900-2000, Rage: +6, Exp: 34, Pushback: 3 Rest: +1 (Requires Level 18 )

Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -5 (Requires fifth Damage upgrade)

Rest 1 Upgrade: Rest: -1 (Requires final Damage upgrade)

Final stats
Damage: 1900-2000 Physical (+25%)
Rage: 20
Experience: 34
Pushback: 3 (+1)
Rest: 1

Crushing Blow has a fairly simple, straightforward progression, aside from the Rest increase you then cancel and the Rage decrease. You just do more damage and occasionally get greater pushback.

The parentheses are because of this Item:


The Lizardmen Combat Boots, which boost Crushing Blow's damage and pushback by the listed values when equipped. I'm noting it at all because normally Rage attacks can't be modified by anything except Rage levels. I'll similarly be covering the other Rage skill-boosting Items where relevant.

The expense climbing can be a bit frustrating, but overall so long as you're not, say, upgrading it every time the game offers it, the Rage cost should be manageable, especially if you make sure to not delay Anger overly much. (Remember: Anger is available to all three classes in Armored Princess, not just the Warrior)

Eventually Crushing Blow's damage becomes genuinely lackluster, but unlike The Legend's basic attack effects that time is a long, long way off, and it really does help tremendously that it has the push effect. 3 tiles of push is honestly ridiculous, allowing you to keep one unit out of the fighting entirely essentially indefinitely (There's not many units that breach 3 Speed), or slow down two slow units basically at once. The damage may cease to impress eventually, but the push remains tremendously useful forever.


Treasure Searcher

Basic stats
Chests: 1
Altars: 0
Rage: 4
Exp: 5
Rest: 1

When a battle starts, the game generates pre-determined spots on the battlefield. When selecting Treasure Searcher, you will be able to select from these spots, and the Baby Dragon can then fly over and dig up whatever is underneath. Chests are represented with green tiles, while 'altars' are represented with blue. Diggables cannot be accessed if the tile is currently blocked in some manner (usually, by a unit occupying it), and in the case of chests the player will still need to have units manually collect them if they want the contents.

'Altar' is the game's strange term for digging up neutral objects that normally occasionally spawn on the battlefield, such as the statues that like to Bless, Heal, or Divine Armor a random nearby unit. That particular functionality is sort of interesting, but not terribly useful. The chest part is a lot more nifty, shoring up your Gold supplies and occasionally throwing in Magic Crystals, or even cooler stuff like Spell scrolls and free Runes!

I especially appreciate how Treasure Searcher gives you something useful to do with Rage when a battle is winding down. It was always a little frustrating in The Legend how battles would tend to eventually reach a point where you had a decent supply of Rage, but the enemy was no longer worth bothering to hit with Rage, and yet due to how rapidly Rage drained out of battle in The Legend it didn't actually make sense to hold onto the Rage for later use. Treasure Searcher is, in fact, ideally used at the tail end of a fight.

Notably, Treasure Searcher is not really comparable to any Rage skill from The Legend, which is a bit unusual for the list.

Treasure 1 Upgrade: Chest: 2 Altar: 0 Rage: +2 Experience: 8
Treasure 2 Upgrade: Chest: 2 Altar: 1 Rage: +3 Experience: 12
Treasure 3 Upgrade: Chest: 3 Altar: 2 Rage: +4 Experience: 17

Rage Upgrade: Rage: -5 (Requires final Treasure Upgrade)

A weirder progression than Smashing Blow's, and shorter.

Broadly speaking, it's usually best to take the first upgrade and then neglect upgrading Treasure Searcher until much later in the game, if at all. The second Chest is fantastic, whereas opening up 'Altars' is more-or-less worthless, and bumping up the Rage cost is a problem, especially early in the game before you've had the chance to max Anger.

Final stats
Chests: 3 (+1)
Altars: 2 (+1)
Rage: 8
Rest: 1

Why +1? Because of this:


The Shovel! It increases the number of Chests and 'Altars' you can dig up by one apiece. An additional Chest at no Rage cost increase is very, very nice.

That said, while Treasure Searcher is something I appreciate Armored Princess introducing, I'm perfectly glad the following games abandoned the basic idea. Treasure Searcher having strategic benefits at the cost of tactical utility is this weird, somewhat problematic dynamic, and Armored Princess doesn't really delve far enough in that direction to make it a good mechanic. Playing 'optimally' means repetitively and tediously digging up 2-3 chests per fight instead of using your fun and powerful Rage moves to actually help with the fight, and even though in the long haul the benefits add up any given chest is probably not that important so the whole thing feels like a grind.

I appreciate it as an experiment, but not in execution, basically.

To be more specific, the chest contents work out to:

72% chance to give gold
15% chance to get random regular Spell Scrolls
5% chance to get Magic Crystals
5% chance to get 1 random Talent Rune
3% chance to get a random Wanderer Scroll

In the case of Talent Runes, you're looking at equal odds of any given one. (ie it's not, say, biased toward Might Runes for a Warrior run) In the case of Magic Crystals, you can get one (50% of the time), two (30% of the time), three (15% of the time), or five (5% of the time) Magic Crystals from a given chest.

In the case of regular Spell Scrolls, you can get 1-3 copies of a Scroll from a given chest; 80% of the time it's one Scroll, 15% of the time it's two Scrolls, and 5% of the time it's three Scrolls. This never mixes Scrolls; you can find 2 Fear Scrolls from a chest, or 2 Magic Shackles Scrolls from a chest, but you'll never get a Fear Scroll alongside a Magic Shackles Scroll.

I'm honestly a little puzzled by Wanderer Scrolls being the rarest possibility, and not Talent Runes. Talent Runes are by far the best payout and the biggest reason why optimal play involves always digging up and collecting every chest. Wanderer Scrolls have their uses, but they're just not as valuable as Talent Runes -there's a reason every game in this series makes it so that buying Talent Runes is an option, but limits it with rapidly escalating costs.

Regardless, even the gold is important for a surprisingly long time if you play on higher difficulties; you really should be leveraging Treasure Searcher as fully as you can if you're playing on a difficulty that challenges you at all.

Which is a bit unfortunate, as I've already covered.


Stone Wall

Basic stats
Health: 150
Defense: 20
Rage: 6
Exp: 7
Rest: 2

Stone Wall works much like Zerock's Stone Wall from The Legend, only it 'curves'. It's still a 3-tile wall, you still have to be able to place all three tiles' worth or you can't place it at all, and it's still a single object where attacking any of the three tiles does damage to the same HP pool and running that pool out clears out all three tiles.

I don't usually use Stone Wall much, myself. While its progression is better than Zerock's Stone Wall had, it's still a bit underwhelming, and it's hampered by the changes to Rest making the high-for-Armored Princess Rest period particularly egregious a flaw. In fact, in some ways it's actually worse off than Zerock's Stone Wall, because this Stone Wall has actual competition from your other Rage skills -if setting a Stone Wall is just going to delay that Swordsmen stack one turn anyway, why not Crushing Blow it to delay it one turn while doing damage and probably generating more Rage experience and not having a Rest period of 2?

Whereas Zerock's Stone Wall was his only skill that could be used to delay enemies, and so if your other Spirits were Resting the fact that Zerock had it could actually be useful.

Health 1 Upgrade: Health: 250, Rage: +1, Experience: +2
Health 2 Upgrade: Health: 500, Rage: +2, Experience: +3 (Requires Level 11)
Health 3 Upgrade: Health: 1000, Rage: +3, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 14)
Health 4 Upgrade: Health: 2000, Rage: +4, Experience: +5 (Requires Level 17)
Health 5 Upgrade: Health: 5000, Rage: +5, Experience: +6 (Requires Level 23)

5000 Health is pretty darn solid, though again I personally don't really feel Stone Wall is worth it.

Defense 1 Upgrade: Defense: 30, Rage: +2, Experience: +3
Defense 2 Upgrade: Defense: 40, Rage: +3, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 13 )
Defense 3 Upgrade: Defense: 50, Rage: +4, Experience: +5 (Requires Level 18 )

Since Defense is effectively a Health multiplier, these boosts tend to be more worth pursuing once you've gotten the Health up fairly high. Which leads back to the issue that I don't really feel it's worth pursuing in the first place.

Final stats
Health: 5000 (+50%)
Defense: 50
Rage: 30
Experience: 39
Rest: 2

You guessed it, it's the


Shovel again. Yes, it simultaneously boosts both Stone Wall and Treasure Searcher. That's fair, given Stone Wall is difficult to justify using, just from the Rest period of 2 and the whole 'why make walls when you can kill and/or shove and/or Shock things' issue.

Ultimately the Rest of 2 really is what makes Stone Wall so difficult to justify, less because a Rest of 2 hurts so much and more because Stone Wall is a bad form of Rage effect for being more than 1 Rest. Lava Call's Rest 2 is annoying, but if you're expecting it to help you finish the battle this turn or the next turn it's not an issue at all. Stone Wall's whole point is dragging a fight out, not hurrying it to a conclusion. Awaken Dragon contributes to the issue: an alpha-strike of using Lava Call and then a 1-Rest nuke via Awaken Dragon is a way to cram a lot of damage into one turn, with Lava Call's Rest of 2 being eliminated by these shenanigans. There's not really an equivalent thing for Stone Wall. Like, yes, you can throw up a Stone Wall and then use Awaken Dragon to do some 1-Rest action, but there's no actual synergy involved.

You shouldn't completely forget it exists, but it really is probably the worst Rage move in the list.


Ball of Lightning (Requires Level 9)

Basic stats
Damage: 10-15% Magic
Shock chance: 20%
Rage: 15
Experience: 10
Rest: 1

Ball of Lightning is a strange hybrid of Lina's Gizmo and Reaper's Soul Draining. When used it generates a unit high in the air over a targeted empty tile (The need for it to be an empty tile is usually not important, but can matter if eg on a small battlefield and summoning a lot of units), which will of its own volition go and attack a single target (It seems to prefer high HP or high Leadership stacks, thankfully, and though it has a movement limit of 5 tiles I've never seen it ignore a target to go haring after something further away. On the other hand, it also, rather bizarrely, has a strong preference for avoiding hitting the same target twice in a row, even if there's exactly one stack that is far higher than any others) inflicting percentile damage to the stack. (ie a stack of 100 units will suffer damage equal to 10-15% of their total Health, regardless of whether they're Peasants or Cyclops) The Ball of Lightning will do this three times total, once a turn, before fizzling out. You can have multiple Balls of Lightning on the field, but while they don't compete with regular units for space they do compete with each other for space. (ie if one stack has a Ball of Lightning hovering over it, any other Balls of Lightning will elect a different target when their 'turn' rolls around) Plus they compete with Gizmo, as previously covered. The ball itself has an Initiative of 10, and so will go before all regular units unless fairly significant Initiative boosting is involved.

Ball of Lightning itself starts out fairly worthless -it's simply far too expensive for the damage it'll be dealing, compared to say Crushing Blow- but as it gains levels and your ability to generate Rage climbs, Ball of Lightning becomes increasingly useful for helping you take on out-of-depth fights effectively (Whether this is you fighting a Sea Chart guardian, a difficult Quest-fight, or simply taking on a Keeper force earlier than your forces are strictly ready for) and also just becomes a useful catchall tool for burning Rage when no other option has more immediate, obvious utility. (eg no enemy is in a good position to be maneuvered in a useful way by Smashing Blow)

Well, until its Rest period goes up, anyway.

Also note that though Ball of Lightning is percentile damage, there are damage modification effects it interacts with. Most notable is Blood Mark on Gorguanas, which flat-out doubles damage on a target -when Ball of Lightning can potentially do 48% damage. 96% damage isn't strictly an instant kill, but it will leave even massively outsized stacks very manageable if it happens.

Another useful quirk of Ball of Lightning is that it can actually generate Rage for hitting things! As such, it can be a useful 'filler' choice just for the fact that it will directly recoup some of its cost over the three turns it's active.

As with eg Burn and Poisoning, Ball of Lightning being Magic damage of course means it does reduced damage to enemies with high Magic resistance -and increased damage to Guard Droids and Repair Droids, since they have negative Magic resistance. This makes it particularly appreciated for dealing with oversized droid stacks, and makes it less worth using in fights heavy on enemies who have high Magic resistance. On the plus side, a number of Magically resistant units have poor enough base Health you'd probably be better off using a non-percentile Rage move anyway, but it can be an unpleasant surprise when taking on stuff like Witch Hunters.


One limitation on Ball of Lightning is that it doesn't work on Gremlins. It's still incredibly useful in Keeper fights, and since they can't be shocked and are heavily resistant to Magic damage it would be a bit wasteful, but if you were hoping to use a Ball of Lightning to wear down a Gremlin, it just won't happen.

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-5]%, chance of shock: +2%, Rage: +2, Experience: +4
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-7]%, chance of shock: +2%, Rage: +3, Experience: +6
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: + [10-15]%, chance of shock: +2%, Rage: +5, Experience: +8 Rest: 2 (Requires Level 26)

Notice that you don't raise minimum damage except on the last damage upgrade... which is also the one that raises the Rest period. And there's no way to reduce the Rest period via Rage leveling. This is fairly frustrating, since without minimum damage going up the RNG can always give you a low roll and thus you don't really benefit from the damage upgrade at any given moment.

If you're fond of using Awaken Dragon, the Rest period isn't too abominable, since you'd want to start with Ball of Lightning anyway due to its percentile damage. Ball of Lightning followed by Dragon Dive just plain ends up doing more damage than the other way around.

Shock 1 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-2]%, chance of shock: +6%, Rage: +2, Experience: +4
Shock 2 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-2]%, chance of shock: +8%, Rage: +3, Experience: +6
Shock 3 Upgrade: Damage: + [0-2]%, chance of shock: +10% Rage: +5, Experience: +8 (Requires Level 21)

In conjunction with the base values and also with maxing the damage upgrades, Ball of Lightning ends up with a 50% chance to shock. Since each Ball of Lightning use hits three times, that's actually fairly reliable -only 12.5% of the time will you fail to get a shock from a given usage of Ball of Lightning.

That said, it should still be treated as a bonus to be pleased by rather than an assumption to be planned around.

Final stats
Damage: 20%-55%
Shock chance: 48% (+30%)
Rage: 35
Experience: 46
Rest: 2
(Hits: 4)

The +30% Shock chance and the number of hits is because of...


... the Helmet with Antenna. It's a pretty neat Helmet, though be careful about its Initiative penalty; -1 Initiative to anything above Level 2 can turn a battle against you very strongly if the Initiative numbers align right. (Or wrong, if you want to look at it that way) Still, boosting Ball of Lightning never loses relevancy thanks to its auto-scaling nature. (Unless you push its price above your current Rage limit, anyway, but unlike some Rage skills this isn't a particularly big concern) Getting up to an 80% Shock chance is also reliable enough to be planning around if eg you only really need the Shock by turn 2.

Ball of Lightning is always held back by being a bit pricey, but overall it just gets better and better as you get deeper in the game and it becomes increasingly normal for enemy battlegroups to substantially out-Leadership you. And of course its utility rises if you play on higher difficulties, because the rising army sizes don't really matter to it.

I do find the last-second Rest increase frustrating, though. It's really not good for Armored Princess' design to handle Rest in this way.


Mana Accelerator (Requires Level 6)

Basic stats
Mana: 7
Action Points: 1
Rage: 8
Exp: 10
Rest: 1

Mana Accelerator is loosely comparable to Lina's Chargers, only it's actually good.

First of all, you get complete control over Mana Accelerator's location. Second of all, there's no randomization on what it gives: it just gives Mana, which is far more useful than being able to recoup some Rage. Third of all, you get to actually increase the Action Points it provides, making it a lot more consistently useful. Fourth of all, you only have to worry about it backfiring on you if you're an idiot, basically.

Early in the game, Mana Accelerator is fantastic for propping up your meager Mana supplies, particularly if you're inclined to try to delay battles to grind for Medal progress. Later on the Mana boost is less impressive, as your Mana needs tend to grow faster than its Mana generation, but Action Points never stop being useful and treating the Mana as a bonus when your primary goal was getting a unit into a really useful position works out just fine for keeping it really useful.

While you might intuitively expect Mana Charger's AP to be more useful to a melee-focused army, the ability to eg walk your Bowmen out of melee range even though they were pinned against the edge of the battlefield is not to be underestimated, often allowing ranged units to get out of awkward situations or avoid them entirely in the first place. 

Mana 1 Upgrade: Mana: 10, Rage: +3, Experience: +2
Mana 2 Upgrade: Mana: 14, Rage: +5, Experience: +3
Mana 3 Upgrade: Mana: 19, Rage: +7, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 18)
Mana 4 Upgrade: Mana: 25, Rage: +9, Exp: +5 (Requires Level 23)

Action Points 1 Upgrade: AP: 2, Rage: +3, Experience: +5

Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 25)

Notice that this Rage down effect is greater than any single cost increase is. If eg you've already taken the AP increase and up to Mana 2, taking Mana 3 is effectively better than free in the long haul because you'll be offered the Rage down and end up 3 Rage less than before you took Mana 3. If you don't really care about maxing Mana Accelerator, pursuing this might be for the best.

Final stats
Mana provided: 25 (+3)
Action Points provided: 2 (+1)
Rage: 25

That's right, it's another Rage skill that benefits from an Item. In this case, it's the


Lizard Gloves. That's... all they do.

If you get them early, the boost to Mana is pretty nice, but in the long haul it barely matters, and the AP boost becomes a lot more situational once you've gotten the AP upgrade per se. You tend to 'grow out' of using the Lizard Gloves as a result, because they're a big deal toward the beginning of the game but will eventually be easily out-competed by other Gloves/whatever else you might be able to put in that slot they're occupying.

Mana Accelerator tends to slowly drop off in utility as your Mana needs climb and all, but it never completely stops being relevant, and early on it's genuinely one of the more amazing Rage skills you've got. You should keep it in mind the whole way.


Mystic Egg (Requires Level 4)

Basic stats
Leadership: 100 +50% of Hero's
Troop Level: 1-2
Rage: 15
Experience: 10
Rest: 2

Mystic Egg generates an egg in any empty tile you like on the battlefield, which the following turn hatches into a stack of a partially randomized type.

Really early in the game it's okay, because enemies can genuinely struggle to break the egg and what comes out is certainly useful as a distraction at minimum, but as Leadership values rise it rapidly falls behind.

Leadership 1 Upgrade: Leadership: 300, Rage: +3, Experience: +2
Leadership 2 Upgrade: Leadership: 700, Rage: +4, Experience: +3
Leadership 3 Upgrade: Leadership: 1300, Rage: +5, Experience: +4 (Requires Level 16)

These upgrades are basically worthless. Either you get them fairly early in the game and they're temporarily helpful for propping Mystic Egg up without fixing its core flaws, or you don't and they're never worth pursuing later on. I'd usually recommend ignoring them entirely if at all possible.

No, what matters later on is...

Hero Percent 1 Upgrade: Leadership of Hero: 70%, Rage: +5 Experience: +3 (Requires Level 9)
Hero Percent 2 Upgrade: Leadership of Hero: 90%, Rage: +7 Experience: +4 (Requires Level 13)

... the percentile upgrades.

Getting to 90% is necessary for Mystic Egg to be competitive late in the game, and it still suffers from the fact that the player expects to routinely be fighting forces that out-Leadership their own forces. Effects that either auto-scale to the enemy (ie Ball of Lightning) or bypass Leadership as a concern to some extent (eg the push effects on Smashing Blow and Dragon Dive) tend to hold up much better later in the game.

So... it's still bad, really.

But at least maxing this out ensures the amount is actually worthwhile.

Obviously, Mystic Egg works best on the Warrior and worst on the Mage, and this upgrade chain in particular is most beneficial to the Warrior and least beneficial to the Mage in turn.

Creatures 1 Upgrade: Level of Creatures: 1-4, Rage: +2, Experience: +3
Creatures 2 Upgrade: Level of Creatures: 2-5, Rage: +3, Exp: +4 (Requires Level 16)

One issue here is that Level doesn't correlate to unit quality in any kind of absolute sense. Higher Level units tend to be more mobile, and tend to require more damage to inflict a casualty in the first place, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're better. In fact, for a disposable unit that will be lost no matter how the battle goes, lower-Level units actually tend to be better at soaking damage in real terms due to their favorable Leadership-to-Health ratios, and similarly tend to dish out more damage in real terms. Being lower in Level means being more susceptible to myriad negative effects, such as the Beholder Paralyzing Ray, but there's no universal mechanic that punishes a unit for being low-Level.

So even though it's cool to be able to just spawn dragons from nothing, potentially, in real terms you're upping the cost on an already-pricey skill to make it even more random in a manner that isn't even necessarily beneficial in actual fact.

This really needed to either not be an upgrade at all or be reworked to be, you know, an upgrade.

As for specifics...

Initially, Mystic Egg can generate any of Venomous Spiders, Cave Spiders, Fire Spiders, Undead Spiders, Lake Dragonflies, Fire Dragonflies, Snakes, or Swamp Snakes. Once you've upgraded its Level range once, it gains Griffins, Royal Griffins, Royal Snakes, and Hayterants. The second and final upgrade removes the dragonflies and every spider except Fire Spiders, but adds Red Dragons, Emerald Green Dragons, Black Dragons, and Bone Dragons.

Yes, your egg can hatch into undead. It's a bit weird, especially when you consider that the name in the original Russian heavily implies the Baby Dragon is just stealing eggs, nothing magic about this. Admittedly Bone Dragon eggs are a thing in these games...

Final stats
Leadership: 1300 +90% of Hero's
Troop Level: 2-5
Rage: 44
Experience: 33
Rest: 2

Overpriced and not that useful. I honestly don't get why Mystic Egg was made so bad. What is even the point of making it Rest 2, anyway? I mean, this is something of a general problem with the game, that there's no clear design purpose to higher Rest values, but I'm clear the devs have this vague notion of Rest periods correlating to the power of a move, which rather implies the devs thought Mystic Egg is actually one of the stronger Rage skills. Which is just confusing.


Dragon Dive (Requires Level 12)

Basic stats
Damage: 300-600 Physical
Rage: 20
Experience: 10
Rest: 1

Dragon Dive involves selecting a single empty, valid-to-travel tile. All enemies take Physical damage, with the amount dropping off the further they are from the selected tile. Enemies can also be shoved one tile away from the target tile, but only if directly adjacent to the impact point.

Regardless, Dragon Dive spends a good chunk of the early/mid-game being your go-to damaging Rage skill, having better base damage than Crushing Blow while hitting literally every enemy. From what I can tell it actually experiences drop-off even for the directly adjacent tiles and so its damage is in real terms a little lower than it sounds, but it's still the case that you're likely to have a phase where Dragon Dive is cheaper than Smashing Blow while doing more damage overall. In the long haul Fiery Phantoms tends to shunt it aside, but you shouldn't neglect Dragon Dive, especially since it has the key advantage of being reasonably affordable up until it's fully upgraded. And even then 42 Rage is not nearly as difficult to keep up with than 70 Rage is. Even the Mage can expect to reach 50-ish Rage soon enough to stay on top of Dragon Dive's cost growth.

The push effect is really useful early on as well, and at first glance it's easy to think it's just going to permanently shunt aside Crushing Blow, but as Crushing Blow gains push distance and Dragon Dive does not, in actuality they just change roles as you go forward: Crushing Blow becomes your go-to Rage move for manipulating an enemy's position, while Dragon Dive is about damage with a bonus of shoving a unit or two or three.

It's a bit unfortunate Dragon Dive's damage doesn't really keep up with endgame needs, but you'll spend a surprisingly long portion of the game getting plenty of use out of it, and doling levels out to it isn't any kind of waste given how many levelups are easy to just ignore without it being a problem. (eg Stone Wall and Mystic Egg as a whole)

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 600-900, Rage: +9, Experience: 13
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 900-1300, Rage: +10, Experience: 17 (Requires Level 21)
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 1300-1700, Rage: +11, Experience: 22 (Requires Level 26)
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 1900-2400 Rage: +12 Experience: 28 Rest: +1

Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 35)

In other words, this can be offered after you've taken the second damage upgrade while exactly canceling its cost increase. So the second damage upgrade is particularly easy to justify grabbing.

Rest 1 Upgrade: Rest: -1 (Requires Rest > 1)

ie you have to get its damage maxed, temporarily put up with a Rest of 2, and hopefully get offered this on your very next Rage level so you don't have to deal with it anymore.

Final stats
Damage: 1900-2400 Physical
Rage: 52
Experience: 28
Rest: 1

As I said, in the end Dragon Dive falls off in utility, but it's a very solid Rage skill for long enough I don't have any particular complaints in the end. It would be nice if it was useful in the endgame, but it keeps up much longer than most of the Rage skills in The Legend, so there's a clear improvement in the design there.


Lava Call (Requires Level 17)

Basic stats
Damage: 1000-1200 Fire
Targets: 3
Rage: 35
Experience: 10
Rest: 2

Lava Call hits several targets with no input from the player for high Fire damage. That's... all it does.

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 1300-1500, Rage: +5 Experience: +2
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 1800-2000, Rage: +6 Experience: +3 (Requires level 26)
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 2300-2600, Rage: +7 Experience: +4 (Requires Level 31)
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 2900-3200, Rage: +8 Experience: +5 (Requires Level 36)
Damage 5 Upgrade: Damage: 3600-3800, Rage: +9, Exp: +6, Rest: 3 (Requires Level 41)

One thing worth pointing out here is that Lava Call grows rather slowly in strength: the first damage upgrade is only a 30% increase to minimum damage, and less than that for maximum damage. It's often difficult to justify a level into its damage when you could get a much more dramatic boost in some other Rage skill.

Targets 1 Upgrade: Targets: 4, Rage: +8, Exp: +1
Targets 2 Upgrade: Targets : 5 Rage: +7 Experience: +2
Targets 3 Upgrade: Targets : 6 Rage: +6 Exp: +3
Targets 4 Upgrade: Targets : 7 Rage: +5 Experience: +4

I like how the Rage increase decelerates as you climb through the target upgrade list. 5 targets is the most consistently useful number, with the two past that being dependent on you fighting summoners or in a fight with an unusually larger number of stacks. (Which mostly means castle fights and Keeper fights) Or you can look at it in terms of how going from 3 to 4 targets is a 33% increase in your overall damage, 4 to 5 is merely a 25% increase, and so on. Either way, it's a pleasant surprise that the game correctly concludes those increases shouldn't hurt the price as much.

Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 60)

Final stats
Damage: 3600-3800 Fire
Targets: 7
Rage: 86
Experience: 40
Rest: 3

Lava Call's three big problems go thusly:

1: It's pricey. If you fully upgrade it, it's actually your single most expensive Rage skill.

2: It's stuck with a Rest period above 1, in fact ultimately rising to a horrific 3! Unless you're going to immediately use Awaken Dragon or expect to finish the fight so soon afterward that you won't care about another chance at Rage, this is unacceptable.

3: Fiery Phantoms will usually be better. The only two points substantially in Lava Call's favor are that Lava Call has no friendly fire/can hit potentially all your enemies regardless of how they're spread out, and that Lava Call's Fire damage means it will hit especially hard against Plants.

The overall result is that Lava Call is... niche. This is compounded by the problem with Rage skills we saw in The Legend: if they suck, you'll tend to find yourself wanting to invest in the ones that don't suck, which just widens the gap between the skills that suck and the ones that are actually worthwhile. Maybe your Warrior has put a lot of levels into Fiery Phantoms, so many that even against Plants Lava Call's damage remains inferior. Suddenly all its got is the targeting behavior to its credit... and Dragon Dive has an even more generous targeting behavior, aside the damage drop-off.

Lava Call's unlock time and base cost also hurt it a lot. When you first get a hold of it, it's often a struggle to have enough max Rage to afford it even in theory if you're not a Warrior, and yet the damage by that point is merely solid, not the kind of thing that turns the tide of a battle all on its own. If you bolster its damage to make it more worthwhile, it climbs even further out of your reach. If you don't boost its damage, you'll occasionally be able to use it, but you won't be impressed with the results.

While I tend to consider Mystic Egg and Stone Wall not worth using, Lava Call is the only Rage skill I've found more or less unusable throughout the entire game. Mystic Egg and Stone Wall at least fill niches early on, and Mystic Egg scaling to your Leadership means it can still potentially pull its weight all the way into the endgame, where Lava Call's fixed damage means it's always falling behind.


Fiery Phantoms (Requires Level 25)

Basic stats
Damage: 1600-1900 Astral
Friendly fire: 80%
Rage: 50
Experience: 10
Rest: 1

Fiery Phantoms has you select a tile -it can be occupied- to center a 3-tile-outward Astral damage strike that hits everything inside the area. Friendly units will take damage, albeit somewhat-reduced damage.

And... that's it. Fiery Phantoms is straightforward damage that enemies can't resist.

That's enough, though.

Damage 1 Upgrade: Damage: 1900-2300, Rage: +10, Experience: +3
Damage 2 Upgrade: Damage: 2300-2700, Rage: +10, Experience: +4, Rest: +1 (Requires Level 31)
Damage 3 Upgrade: Damage: 2700-3300, Rage: +10, Experience: +5, Rest: +1 (Requires Level 36)
Damage 4 Upgrade: Damage: 3000-3700, Rage: +10, Experience: +6, Rest: +1 (Requires Level 41)

The progression is a bit slower than I'd prefer, damage-wise, particularly given the Rage cost increase means you're only barely pulling ahead in damage cost-to-damage efficiency, but if you can reliably pull off the Rage for Fiery Phantoms (Read: you're the Warrior) then these upgrades are absolutely worth pursuing. Not necessarily immediately, but at all for sure.

Rollback 1 Upgrade: Damage to Allies: 60%, Experience: +2 Rest: -1 (Requires Rest > 1)
Rollback 2 Upgrade: Damage to Allies: 40%, Experience: +3 Rest: -1 (Requires Rest > 1)
Rollback 3 Upgrade: Damage to Allies: 20%, Experience: +4 Rest: -1(Requires Rest > 1)

In short: except the first damage upgrade, each damage upgrade will unlock the opportunity to undo the Rest increase, while throwing in for free bonus experience gain and a reduction in friendly fire. If you're going to try to make Fiery Phantoms a seriously useful part of your arsenal, this is just obvious.

Rage 1 Upgrade: Rage: -10 (Requires Rage Cost > 50)

ie you can potentially be offered this if you've made any damage upgrades at all. Absolutely worth taking if offered, though you might prioritize other Rage options at any particular level.

Final stats
Damage: 3000-3700 Astral
Friendly fire: 20%
Rage: 80
Experience: 37
Rest: 1

Fiery Phantoms is at its best when you're fighting battlegroups that have a large number of closely-clustered stacks, such that you can hit 7 or more separate stacks. Against more ordinary battlegroups, it can be a cool alpha strike if you manage to get into a fight with a ton of Rage, but can be harder to justify the Rage cost. It's particularly useful for trying to kill eg Black Dragons, due to the Leadership-to-Health ratio -maximum power Fiery Phantoms is going to kill 7500 Leadership of Black Dragons (in a single stack, that is), where eg against Peasants it works out to somewhere below 3700 Leadership of units- where large stacks of low-Leadership units tends to be better to target with Ball of Lightning.

Fiery Phantoms ideally is supported by arranging for the enemies to remain clustered. A Chaos Dragon is a useful way to do this, since it resists Astral damage anyway and will be spreading Burn and all, or a Paladin with maxed Resurrection-the-Skill can hurl some unit into the fray and not care at all about the casualties they're taking. If you don't bother to keep enemies clustered to maximize the number of targets hit, Fiery Phantoms will tend to drop off in utility in the late game: if you're only going to manage to hit like two targets while fighting battlegroups containing stacks with 40,000 or more Leadership, Ball of Lightning will often do more damage right away, let alone over time, while throwing in free Shocks.

Fiery Phantoms is probably the main Rage skill that justifies considering drinking a Potion of Rage beforehand, since it's very Rage-intensive and generally works best on the first turn of a fight if you're not going to specifically lure the enemies together. Other Rage skills are either far easier to afford or are, well, not very good, and especially if you make sure to max Anger early it's usually easy to generate enough Rage simply through killing the enemy.

In any event, Fiery Phantoms holds up far better than eg Black Hole in The Legend, in spite of inferior targeting behavior, just because its damage is way, way better.

---------------------


Last of the relevant Items is the Dragon's Toy. made by combining the other four Items together. It has a decent, if somewhat pedestrian, effect of providing +15 Rage when equipped, and more relevantly it boosts the damage of all damaging Rage skills by 15%. I'd usually rather equip most of the individual components, but the Dragon's Toy is worth noting for the fact that it's the only way to boost Dragon Dive, Fiery Phantoms, or Lava Call. If you find yourself spamming those skills a lot, and/or unable to reach the Rage necessary to use them at all while wanting to use them, it's definitely worth considering, and since you can always take it apart to get the components back, just using it temporarily, such as for a particularly difficult fight, can make sense.

Though, on an Item-related note it's a lot more worthwhile to keep in mind that Potions of Rage can be used to set yourself up for a fight in Armored Princess, simply because Rage itself is far more useful. This is counterbalanced by the fact that where The Legend was so generous with Potions of Rage my last Mage ended the game with more than fifty, having not ever bothered to buy any (Though admittedly also not bothering to use any), my last Armored Princess Mage had more like 15 and didn't see that many in stores because it's just way less generous with them. As such, it's a trickier judgment call as to whether it's worth blowing the Potion of Rage or not.

Which is actually nice! Tricky decisions are what you get if your game is genuinely nuanced and interesting.

-----------------

Next time, we break from The Legend's pattern and cover Medals.

Comments

  1. One thing that wasn't mentioned about the wall and it should have been is that sometimes enemies perceive it as a natural blocker, one that cannot be destroyed, and they try to bypass it, so in those times it takes them out of equation completely if the wall was in a good spot.

    That is the exact thing I liked the wall for. No argument - clearly inferior to damaging but it has that random feeling of lottery winning just like when a nimble unit dodges an attack and it really feels great. Won me battles with no losses where any other option would not have saved anything.

    And I just like the aesthetics of the wall. And the thing gets really monstrous later on and you can just trap units and see them try to burst their way through and fail utterly because you wear them down every turn. Hillarious stuff, clearly my favourite ability.

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  2. I would also love to speak in defence of the egg.

    Just nuking stuff is boring really. This one has this in-built randomness. Sometimes you win, sometimes you wish you had used something else. Nonetheless it allows you to use units that you would probably never buy anyway. And that is a good thing in my book.

    I am speaking merely from the standpoint of fun but its actual utility is not to be underestimated. Sometimes you just have to throw in cannon fodder to distract enemies and stall their advance. Admiteddly I didn't use it much because it wasn't called for. Yet still it remains a good viable option. You just have to make that judgement whether your means are sufficient to stop enemies dead before they reach you or you hold out until your glorious brawler arrives and then with its invaluable help proceed to do all kinds of nasty stuff to the enemies that are keen on destroying the summoned.

    For the same very reason I like "The call of nature" to try out units that I would never really include in my army.

    P. S. The egg can spawn haighterrants (got the name right?), griffins and their more powerful cousins, all kinds of spiders, all kinds of snakes and other units you mentioned. The pterodactyl is especially interesting since the unit is the king of summoning and has a very interesting mechanic to cause maximal damage reliably.

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    1. The problem with Mystic Egg is that past the extremely early game the player will have Spell-based summons that are vastly superior in basically every way. Furthermore, the situations you most desperately want a distraction are the situations where you can't afford the wait time of Mystic Egg, making it junk.

      If you prioritize variety to your experience over playing the game well, you can get away with using Mystic Egg in easier fights and the occasional 'oversized stacks of slow melee enemies' battlegroup, but the situations it's genuinely worth using in its own right are very, very rare.

      Stone Wall isn't as thoroughly terrible, and you will indeed occasionally find that it's the only thing that can do the job you need done, but mostly it's pretty terrible.

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  3. +2% crit is terrible, isn't it? A crit is something like a 60% boost over an average hit, so 2% crit is about 1.2% more damage compared to 3.33% from 1 Attack, and it doesn't work on unit talents.

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    1. A crit is a 50% boost over a max damage hit. (ie a unit that does 10-20 damage will crit for 30 damage) What that is relative to the average roll depends HEAVILY on the unit: for some units, a crit is basically triple their expected average damage, while for other units it's more like a 40% increase. It all depends on how wide their damage range is.

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  4. I'm actually quite surprised that you disliked Mystic Egg so much. For me it was easily my single favorite skill in the entire game. Granted this was playing Normal difficulty, which likely skews things a little bit. Thing is, for getting zero losses throwing in bodies was always the best choice for me.

    I'd usually run an army with 1-2 units that can summon, and start the first turn summoning chumps and casting a phantom of one of the -enemy- troops right next to them. The whole enemy force would spend their first turn weakening themselves beating up the phantom while making zero progress towards my side, which would give me enough rage to put down an egg. Next turn, I'd awaken dragon and put -another- egg down, and by then I'd have just -so many troops- that the enemy wouldn't be able to realistically push through them all. When you consider that some of those egg summons can -also- summon things, and when you also consider that every time any unit hits any other unit you generate more rage...it was beautiful. I'd win fights using swarm tactics, getting huge gains in anger and mana from both the fighting and the fodder dying. The enemy rarely got remotely close to me. I frequently found myself soundly beating "impossible" ranked enemies with far more troops than me simply because I was able to add an entire extra troop for free every turn (Didn't even matter if some of my troops weren't fully stocked since the egg always summons based on -your- max). You say that having percentage damage is good for fighting enemies with huge troop sizes, but the same can be said that an enemy with a huge troop doesn't matter if they can never actually reach you. Something worth noting is that I found the enemy AI heavily favored targeting lower level troops or troops that had been beaten up some compared to making a break to my important units in back. This was especially important during Keeper/Hero fights, as it meant enemy fireballs and other spells would be used to hit my chumps instead of my actual troops. I can lose hundreds of fodder troops without technically taking a loss, and honestly? It made it feel more like a proper battle of army vs army when you've got a dozen troops on either side scrambling around.

    Really, to top it all off it was also just kind of -fun- to see what would burst out of the egg one turn or another. Maybe I'd get a powerful cool looking dragon, maybe I'd get snakes that can tank a lot of hits, maybe I'd get the dino that summons dinos, regardless I was rarely disappointed by the egg, and actually it was an amusing tactical situation playing around "protect the precious egg so it can hatch!".

    One last note to consider is that the damaging dragon attacks are a one-and-done, even the lightning ball is three-and-done. Whatever you got from the egg was there for the -entire- fight, so every new egg you hatched just exponentially increased your strength, and even if they died the rage they generate from being slapped around meant the egg paid for itself, and I could use weaker troops near the end of a fight to kite the enemy around to step on traps for the trap trophy. Next time I play I'm definitely going Warrior just so I can have even more egg fun than my paladin did!

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    1. I started from the second-highest difficulty for my first run and after that always went to the highest difficulty, and found that pressure from enemies was too intense; it was too important to do damage or push troops back or whatever now, and enemy ranged attackers made it too dicey to protect it when they were present. And part of the problem is the Rage leveling vicious cycle: if the game is actually challenging you, you need to focus on leveling whatever will help now, not whatever will be good sometime down the line, and then it's often better to level a leveled skill than to level a currently-weak skill, making it even harder to justify using the less-viable skill.

      I might give it a chance with a Warrior at some point, though, as that does sound fun. I'm just skeptical it's particularly viable on the higher difficulties.

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    2. For sure, I can get that. For all I know if I play the game on a high difficulty the dragon egg strategy may end up going from being incredibly strong to something not viable. Either way, if you do give it a shot on a future play through I hope you do have some fun with it!

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  5. Maybe my game is different, but my Helmet with Antenna is causing -1 initiative to units of tier 3 to 5 as it states. You wrote "the Helmet with Antenna. It's a pretty neat Helmet if you aren't using units below Level 4 anyway, so this is plenty relevant" when from my observation only tier 1-2 units are not getting the deadly initiative penalty (just having tier 5 units they still got the penalty, just having tier 4 they got the penalty, same with tier 3, only tier 1 and 2 weren't getting brutalized), the item is much less impressive to put it mildly. On an army with solely tier 3 and up units (quite common, especially early/mid game), it's just straight up -1 initiative to the entire army, which is a cataclysmic downside in CW. I'd say it's unplayable unless you only have 1-2 units max of tier 3 and above which get hit by the penalty, and even then it's suspect to be honest. Perhaps you just misread it and didn't get a chance to test it, but if you have a save state with the item it's worth checking out and confirming for yourself what it does, and updating the entry if possible (hopefully in not as favorable a light, since -initiative penalties can't be really be downplayed). Ofcourse in those rare all tier 1-tier 2 armies, it's a fine enough helm granting 2 int and boosting the great Ball Lightning, but that will be the minority of players experience.

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    1. Whoops, yeah, I've been misreading that the whole time.

      The Initiative penalty isn't really that bad, though? Since Initiative is a binary, it's fine to have a penalty if either you still go before the enemy due to them having worse Initiative or if you have Initiative boosts; a Quickdraw build wouldn't necessarily be bothered at all, for example.

      But it does make the helmet noticeably less of a gimme, yes. I'll be updating its description later.

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  6. "The Initiative penalty isn't really that bad, though?" Common bro. You're more than knowledgeable enough to know that Initiative penalties are nothing to scoff at. Not much in KB do i fear more than initiative penalties. Dark Side had a deadly -2 initiative penalty bug that some get plagued with (like NoFairFight on his current no loss demonesses playthrough.. and its brutal when even his archdemon is getting out initiatived which is yikes. There is a solution i found on the forums that works which is taking a single unit and entering a battle and retreating, which then resets the initiative. If i had to guess the bug stems from a hidden "ambush" penalty that Dark Side has, which is only meant to be -2 initiative until the ambusher is defeated, but sometimes it sadly sticks unless solved..

    At the very least a Mage can't even dream of losing initiative in CW. Perhaps some Warrior variant with the all archer Quickdraw 3 type army can shrug off the initiative penalty, but they don't really give much of a damn about the +2 intellect, and the extra shock and lightning charge are nice and cute, but the opportunity cost of not using a better helmet is real, on top of the -initiative penalty. But sure there are some armies that can begrudgingly and questionably rock it (like i gave one example with the lower tier army, you gave one example of the quickdraw army, and there are a couple others) without being crippled. Still we can't in good conscience downplay a -initiative penalty gear, so hopefully you hammer that in when you revise your description of it. I trust you will do a good job.
    -SR

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    1. I spent the middle half of my first Hard Mage run with this helmet bolted to Amelie's head for lack of a better option and literally did not notice I'd misunderstood its mechanics because it didn't matter.

      First of all, -1 player Initiative is fundamentally less impactful than +1 player Initiative because ties break in the AI's favor -your Sea Dogs go after their Sea Dogs whether they're tied or you're at -1 Initiative. Second, Initiative boosts overwhelming a penalty is often not meaningfully worse than if you also removed the penalty -a Necromancer backed by Power of Darkness 3 with a -1 Initiative penalty still goes before the overwhelming majority of enemies with no tradeoff. (Where eg +20 Attack combined with -10 Attack is, in fact, worse than +20 Attack straight unless you're already bumping up against the cap on Attack/Defense modification) Third, for a blaster caster Mage, you only really care about getting two units to go first -a Necromancer to strengthen your Spell damage significantly, and then some unit right after the Necromancer, where other units going after the enemy can be fine. (Of course, for specific cases like using Engineers to mass-Blind, earlier is still better) And fourth, the highest Initiative tiers are populated heavily by really fast units that will still out-Initiative most enemies if at a penalty because Speed is the second tiebreaker and thus an Archdemon at -1 ties with eg Devilfish on Initiative but still goes first thanks to their ludicrous 9 Speed.

      It's huge when it does matter, yes, but it can absolutely also just... not matter.

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    2. "literally did not notice I'd misunderstood its mechanics because it didn't matter." That's not a good thing. How you can notice your units get their initiative killed? I'd be losing my mind.

      "your Sea Dogs go after their Sea Dogs whether they're tied or you're at -1 Initiative" Yeh i know how initiative works. As an aside i noticed that Rune Mages "summons" actually win the speed tie with their A.I counterparts (this is with no other initiative or speed modifiers, just plain equal init/speed), my guess would be since the Rune Mage was a tier 5 that summoned it so it factors in to breaking the speed tie and is the exception to the rule of A.I winning tiebreaks.

      You do understand that a Necromancer at 6/2 is drastically worse than a necro at 7/2 right (a hefty amount of units suddenly go before it which is very far from ideal. Even a huge Scoffer Imp type stack can no longer be Magic Locked before it goes, or Demoness etc among dozens of other dangerous units)? Imagine him falling to Demonologist levels. That would be a nightmare.

      I get all your points, but they don't change the reality that negative initiative penalties are not something one should willingly take lightly. If it doesn't bother you more power to you, but I personally wouldn't use the Helm if i had just tier 3-5 units, even if it gave a drastically better bonus. The only world where i'd consider taking -initiative penalties is if I was getting like Lab Coat tier power in terms of Resistance (ironically slap a -1 initiative on it, and suddenly it's no longer crazy broken).

      Anyway good update of it's entry in the analysis, that's what matters most. Admittedly I am on the extreme of the initiative debate (along with many other top kb players who appreciate it's value), but it's fine to not think it's as important (still where it matters most, in the analysis, you do a good job talking up + Initiative such as from the Blue pet Dragon and some other examples, so i have no complaints. You can have a personal preference or maybe you like the additional challenge of crippling your units).

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    3. It's... really frustrating when you give responses that make it clear you didn't actually pay attention to what I wrote. I talked explicitly about boosts and whatnot -I didn't notice my Necromancers taking an Initiative hit from the helmet because I had stuff like Power of Darkness keeping them high enough they always went first in every situation I encountered where them going first would be expected. I miss things, but 'my units are going second when I expected them to go first' is not the kind of thing I miss.

      If you'd notice Literally Nothing Changing In Actual Play and be driven insane by it... I cannot imagine why you would? Frankly I'm skeptical this is a true statement and not just Literally Did Not Read What Was Written at work.

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    4. Having other initiative boosts to offset an initiative penalty obviously changes the equation, but in a vacuum that isn't what I'm talking about. Obviously in a world where units are already getting initiative boosts, than a penalty isn't as problematic. But that isn't the norm (Especially for a Mage where something like Power of Darkness on Necro is only a late game type dream).

      "I miss things, but 'my units are going second when I expected them to go first' is not the kind of thing I miss." Ok. But this doesn't change the fact that a necro that would be 7/2 going down to 6/2 would be a crippling of its power. Power of Darkness to help change that isn't what my post was about.

      "If you'd notice Literally Nothing Changing In Actual Play and be driven insane by it" ??????? If i notice my units with an initiative penalty, which clearly would significantly change things, yes i'd go crazy with it. The prime example is Warrior Maiden in Wotn with her bugged Messenger of the Gods (+1 Initiative to allied Vikings) that i mentioned (As an aside, you haven't noted that in your analysis yet. I can assure you I am correct on it, but you can test for yourself to see it's not working both in Wotn/Ice and Fire and in Dark Side), which caused me to not be able to have initiative advantage with my other vikings who were then consequently losing out the initiative race versus enemy forces (including fighting their counterparts that weren't bolstered by Warrior Maiden, which should have given me the advantage if the +1 initiative was working). Something like that drives me absolutely crazy and makes a huge difference in no loss playthrough's.

      " Frankly I'm skeptical this is a true statement and not just Literally Did Not Read What Was Written at work." I don't even know what this means or is referring to. I don't ever lie, I'm not exaggerating or being hyperbolic. If i notice my units getting hit by an initiative penalty (exceptions are things like Stone Skin which I account for and am in control of) it really bothers me (which is totally logical, especially if it's a bug. It's one thing if bugs are not significantly altering the gameplay, but once it starts negatively hurting your high level playthrough, it really puts a damper on things). I'm not sure why this is something that you are struggling to understand my viewpoint on, it's not even slightly controversial.

      One last crack at it. Let's say Helm of the Antenna stated what you thought it did, and that it was only supposed to affect tier 1-2 units with the negative initiative penalty. If I then saw that my tier 3+ army were all getting a negative initiative penalty (and i'd notice right away that atleast some of my units were being outspeed when they shouldn't, since i know every units initiative/speed by heart as well as i know my left hand) eventhough they weren't supposed to, I'd be really annoyed (and ofcourse would immediately remove the offending and bugged item). Does this make more sense?

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    5. sigh

      I walked you through why I think the Initiative penalty isn't so bad. I talked about specific considerations like Initiative boosting overcoming the penalty, and how it's entirely possible to have things play out so literally nothing changes in turn order, and made it clear this did in fact actually happen in an actual run of mine, for in fact an extremely long stretch of play. You then responded as if none of that mattered or is true aside a token 'I get your points' comment that doesn't really mean anything when the rest of the response made it clear you most certainly did *not* get the thrust of what I was saying.

      Fixating on the ways it can matter is a very strange response to 'it doesn't necessarily matter, and I know this concretely because that literally happened to me'.

      And yeah, I know about the Warrior Maiden thing. Thought I'd already included it, actually... I'll double-check and add it in if I haven't.

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    6. " and made it clear this did in fact actually happen in an actual run of mine" Since you didn't even notice that your initiative was being hurt by antenna, it's actually the reason on this matter i'm not going to put much stock in your claim that nothing really changed. Clearly your attentiveness on matters of initiative aren't as ocd as mine (which is fine, but it also has the effect of making it impossible for me to digest what you are claiming, when i know from my own experiences what a negative initiative penalty means).

      " did *not* get the thrust of what I was saying." Best i understand was that as long as there are other initiative boosts like Power of Darkness that it sorta washes out, which is largely true enough. The rest of it is just pointless to get into because clearly losing initiative will have a decided impact on things, atleast occasionally in certain relevant situations (l listed a couple of the most obvious, i could list dozens of cases where different player comps of tier 3-5 units getting -1 initiative would hurt the player, I could write a book detailing the myriad battles -not to mention Gremlin btw who suddenly will out initiative some of the player's crippled units, which is far from insignificant, and bolstering lightning shock and hits isn't what one needs anyway in a Gremlin battle- that can go south if one's units have lower initiative). To claim this doesn't happen is not a discussion that is fruitful and I wanna be respectful towards you, so nothing good will come of going down this train further. Maybe if it wasn't a discussion via messages it would be easier to hash it, but alas we won't get anywhere on this topic with a back and forth on it, which is fine. You don't have to be perfect, it's okay if I firmly know my position on Initiative is correct, and it's fine for you to think your way (as long as you aren't giving poor analysis, which i haven't seen in regards to initiative matters, and as i said your Ball Lightning update for the Antenna was solid).

      Ok good that you know about Warrior Maiden initiative problem, and will update your analysis. I tried to see if it was discussed over the past few years and stumbled on my old bug list on the forums where i posted some of the myriad bugs i encountered (Right before the sadly final relevant patch that fixed a couple of the bugs i chronicled, but very far from all...) including the Warrior Maiden one - forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=185093

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    7. I'm going to come at the Initiative thing from a different direction.

      You've noted I do consistently emphasize the importance of Initiative when it comes up in these posts. A big part of why I do so, in the exact way I do so, is that these posts are aimed at... not a beginner player, exactly, but something much closer to a beginner than the kind of player that deliberately challenges themselves to beating the entire game with a single Black Dragon. Initiative is sufficiently high impact when it matters, and sufficiently complex or opaque to a learning player, that I can't give general axioms -it's not like -1 Initiative is always safe to sit on, for example. So it's safer to just caution a learning player t not treat Initiative penalties lightly. (Whereas eg -1 to Attack is pretty ignorable; if I were covering equipment, there are absolutely items where I'd be saying 'yeah, don't pay attention to that stat penalty, it's too minor to care')

      However, I think by some reasonably objective metric -1 Initiative is genuinely not killer. If you're familiar with the game in detail with Scouting online and/or willing to reload after getting a look at a fight, you can absolutely go into a fight with the Helmet equipped where it literally changes nothing because all the numbers are right for it to not matter, completely reliably, and just pull it off for fights where it will be decisively problematic. Thus, for such an experienced player (Or one who plays with a site like this one open and constantly checks the numbers), the Helmet can be used with no meaningful penalty in quite a few battles.

      But I wouldn't want to thoughtlessly suggest a learning player try to replicate that -one of my common frustrations with game FAQs and the like is that they often exhort readers to replicate strategies that aren't beginner-friendly somehow or another, whether usage requires knowing too much about the game, or requires a player be able to reliably do a very tight feat of timing, or whatever, where in some sense these guides are correct that their strategy is powerful, possibly in some very real sense optimal, but where I can't help but suspect a non-trivial fraction of readers are metaphorically walking into rakes because they don't know enough to know they shouldn't yet try to implement this strategy.

      Anyway, updated both Warrior Maiden descriptions appropriately.

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  7. P 1/2
    "Initiative is sufficiently high impact when it matters, and sufficiently complex or opaque to a learning player" Ok this is True. Still we need to drill into new players heads how important initiative is (especially if they play mages, which atleast in the LP realm is the most common class and i'd be willing to bet across all the games Mages are the class that get used the most)

    "So it's safer to just caution a learning player t not treat Initiative penalties lightly." Yeh i fully agree with everything you are saying

    "(Whereas eg -1 to Attack is pretty ignorable; if I were covering equipment, there are absolutely items where I'd be saying 'yeah, don't pay attention to that stat penalty, it's too minor to care')" Yup this is all true. Ofcouse - initiative penalty on equipment, or - speed on equipment (like the highly suspect and narrow tier 5 dwarven Steam Armor that I look at in horror and my eyes bulge), for penalties like -speed or -initiative the equipment better say "you win the game" or damn close. This is why lab coat with -1 initiative would be hella interesting (Alternatively the final upgrade shoulda just been 15 resistance which i thought it would be going from 5 to10, and then 20??? yikes thats not a good type of broken..), but since in my eyes nothing Trumps Resistance, not even initiative, i'd lean towards it still being the best armor in the game. However Succubus Boots with their outrageous 40 mana and +1 speed to everything, all as a "tier 3" btw, would then become the most broken in DS. I just upgraded for "Perfect Boots" in CW and was amazed that i had forgotten that it grants 30 mana (Which to be fair is alot in CW) as a tier 5, and I could only shake my head after having worn two "tier 3" succubus boots in DS. It's like driving a Lamborghini, and then downgrading to horse and buggy. I can't..)

    "and/or willing to reload after getting a look at a fight" I have never reloaded or looked into a fight. Those are red lines for me. I am a fully honest, non-degenerate (i.e no map stealing everything, no reloading to steal everything before beginning to fight at level 21 with 4k leadership the first fights in the game...) player. I won't judge what others do, it's PVE after all (But i don't watch LP's of players that reload abuse and the like, although thankfully most don't), but I will never think in terms of "oh if a player reload abuses and sees that the - initiative penalty won't be an issue for the battle, then sure it would become more viable there". You are free to do that although it's not a good thing to advocate for in an analysis that is otherwise so high level since it tars it (if i were you i'd remove some of your writings on things like scouting where you mention things like 'just look at the fight and reload' since that really breaks the spirit of the game, but ultimately it's your analysis)

    "you can absolutely go into a fight with the Helmet equipped where it literally changes nothing because all the numbers are right for it to not matter" This is true

    "and just pull it off for fights where it will be decisively problematic. " this is also true. Equipment shuffling for different battle types, or reserve swapping with different gear (i.e if bringing in a troll and one has Ogre's Sandals for it etc), are all viable strategies that are employed at the highest level. But this is pretty advanced stuff that only like a couple percent of us do, the average run of the mill impossible player (and certainly those lower) don't go to those lengths.

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    1. P 2/2
      I've read so far and everything has been accurate, but i am waiting for the "but"

      "Thus, for such an experienced player (Or one who plays with a site like this one open and constantly checks the numbers), the Helmet can be used with no meaningful penalty in quite a few battles." Ah ok you came to the part where for us at the top this is possible. Yes you are right. Someone like me can actually use the Helm in a fight that i know it won't be detrimental. But that is an anomaly, the target audience can't be me or players of a high level. But ok i will concede that at high level play the item becomes situationally usable. The issue is the generic, general line has to be to caution against things like that since very few players should be tampering with -initiative penalties. It's like playing with fire, one has to caution against it. We might be Dragons with immunity, but they usually aren't (and on the flip side there has to be some new Thorn Hunters reading these to learn basics and fundamentals, and they really need to stay away from - initiative penalties)

      "But I wouldn't want to thoughtlessly suggest a learning player try to replicate that" ok that is good.

      "because they don't know enough to know they shouldn't yet try to implement this strategy." Yeh that is exactly the mindset i have, which is why I am cool with your defense of it in a theoretical high level manner, as long as the Analysis isn't buttering IT up and then some bright-eyed lad has all the stars align poorly in terms of initiative, and they are getting outsped and brutalized when they really shouldn't have been.

      Wow i am surprised but i agreed with everything you wrote (i hinted that if it weren't a message discussion,the situation where it hurts (of which there are many), and those that didn't (of which there also are many), could be discussed. But that stuff is too advanced for even most diligent readers and players, so i always take publicly the safer but generic "initiative is king" type approach since few know every units initiative/speed and turn order of how battles will play out in advance and can make a completely safe judgement call (which is why i mentioned the common situation of say the penalized 6/2 necromancer with no other initiative boosts, facing demons, and suddenly their scoffer imps and demoness are raving the hapless player if they went into it with antenna's blocking their eyes, before a spell could be cast or the Necro could Magic Lock prevent an impending disaster which would be cataclysmic in tough fights).

      "Anyway, updated both Warrior Maiden descriptions appropriately." Yeh i saw, it's perfect now .I only wish a solution could have been found, but i was only able to implement some quasi workarounds with the code before ultimately shelving it and sucking up that I'll have to suffer with the bugged version like everyone else. She would have actually been a great unit as intended, and is still solid enough, but sadly that really tars her beauty in my eyes. Vikings in general could really have used the Orc Love treatment

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    2. I don't really think reloading is a violation of the spirit of the game. It's certainly possible to 'Ironman' the game and play it as if it's a roguelike, but much of the design is clearly built around the expectation that players will load when things go really wrong -Keeper fights in particular will never give you forewarning of any kind on what's inside, making it a blind choice whether to risk taking them on, which is only okay of a design choice because the player can (And normally will) just shrug and reload when a Level 1 item throws ten times their Leadership of enemies at them for its Keeper fight.

      Notably, the game denies combat saves and saves the RNG seed; it's careful to prevent the player from just savescumming through a fight in the form of constantly forcing the dice to roll favorably. If you get through a rough fight, it's almost certainly through having the tools to do so and using them in an intelligent way, even if you arrived at said intelligent solution primarily through trial and error.

      I can contrast this with other save-anywhere games where it becomes possible to cheese fights by simply saving before every action and reloading until the RNG favors you, which in some particularly egregious cases can let the player beat basically anything because every attack always has a chance to miss, or whatever.

      It is, of course, impressive to ironman these games, but I don't think it's accurate to call it the 'intended' experience.

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    3. "I don't really think reloading is a violation of the spirit" Yeh i know you don't, but the majority of KB players feel it is. "play it as if it's a roguelike" it's extremely commonplace for players to not reload abuse in single player pve games where whatever challenge there is evaporates if one can just constantly reload spam and game everything in their favor (I could never even dream of playing that, for me challenge and honor are everything).
      "Keeper fights in particular will never give you forewarning of any kind on what's inside" Yeh and that's why you don't go into them with your pants down until/unless you already have enough kb experience and game knowledge to be able to gauge the rough power level of the keeper fight and have solutions and a comp and sufficient power to win. Things like rage potions and the like are standard for potentially tough/unknown keeper fights, and even using wanderer scrolls isn't out of the question. Ofcourse by cheating and just looking at the fight beforehand, none of this strategy and risk is present.

      "making it a blind choice whether to risk taking them on," It's not a blind choice, us honest players know how to approach keeper battles. As long as one knows the level of the artifact its upgrading into (there is nothing wrong with seeing say what tier the snake ring artifact is online, especially if the initial tier of the gear is 1 like with the lowly silver shoes that become tier 5 perfect shoes (With a hardish fight not surprising with a name like "perfect shoes" which doesn't sound like it would be tier 2 or tier 3, although i personally don't even do that to go to the extreme level of honesty, and instead make my own notes and documentation over the years so i am relying solely on my game knowledge to enter keeper fights fairly), and prepares properly, even if it ends up an extremely tough and grueling battle (has happened before more than once, i remember my first Ring of the Snake battle many years ago when i thought it would be some like eary game keeper battle, and i was in the fight of my life and pushed to the limit since it was early game)

      "(And normally will) just shrug and reload when a Level 1 item throws ten times their Leadership of enemies at them for its Keeper fight." I don't think highly of those players. But they can do what they want, it's not my business, as long as they aren't advocating this as some type of "Strategy" because it's not, sorry. It's gaming the system, reload abusing etc. This isn' debatable.

      "even if you arrived at said intelligent solution primarily through trial and error." There is no point in us having this discussion. I don't condone reloading and never will, no matter what, and that will never change (i am more likely to support an item that reduces all the player's units 1 to initiative permanently, and you know how anathema to that i would be). But again players can do what they want. I only am not in love with things like this in an otherwise great analysis "Unless you're playing some kind of ironman no-loading challenge or something, Scouting remains inferior to, you know, getting into a fight and reloading if you don't like what you're seeing.", because no skill should have its strength or lack thereof determined by reload abusing. I hope you can understand my perspective, but ultimately it's your analysis and you can do what you want.

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    4. tbh one of the primary draws of the King's Bounty games for me is they're good games for relaxing. There's games I enjoy pushing myself as hard as I can on, redoing them with limits on myself like 'no using X category of option', seeing how much I can do with minimal tools and whatnot -I did Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun with challenges like 'only use one of the characters at all', for example. I've never really gotten into that mentality with the King's Bounty games, though; I play primarily on Impossible because the games are simply boring on Normal and (Aside Dark Side's early game) still generally not quite challenging enough on Hard to be seriously engaging. But I'm still primarily playing these games to relax, and I'm pretty sure they're deliberately built to be relaxing; their combat musics are largely pretty peaceful, Keeper fights in particular have that puzzle game quality of being frustrating while paired with particularly mellow music, death is a slap on the wrist instead of a game over screen...

      I flatly disagree on the Keeper point, though. They're unacceptably opaque from an ironman sort of perspective, and if we're talking 'the way the game is meant to be played' then looking up online their info is 'cheating' -the game deliberately hides this info, after all, even when you have Scouting maxed. I'm completely certain they were designed this way and never seriously updated precisely because the devs expected players to just reload if a Keeper fight turned out to be hopeless for their current forces.

      Regardless, I also don't really care about your philosophy here, because I was never talking about our philosophies. I'm talking *the series'* philosophy; these are games that allow freeform save/load, build major elements around access to freeform save/load (Keeper fights, some of Dark Sides zero-warning ambushes...), actively autosave at castles and when sailing to a new island to make sure even a player who isn't diligent about saving still has the ability to back up probably only a few minutes if they hit a fight and rage-quit, and never made any effort to curb player ability to save and load anywhere that isn't a fight.

      That you think loading out of a bad situation is a bad way to play is wholly irrelevant to the question of whether it's the intended way to play, which was my actual focus. (And always has been; stuff like Scouting being a skill stands out precisely because it's a rare example of an element in the game that doesn't mesh with the expectation that players will load an earlier save readily)

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    5. "and if we're talking 'the way the game is meant to be played' then looking up online their info is 'cheating' " No i didn't say one should look up the keeper fight online, i said one can look up what tier the "perfect shoes" or ring of the snake is when it upgrades (that is something the info should be shown on the item upgrade progression in my opinion, what tier the gear becomes. The only time it could be known for certain was if the initial tier of the gear is 3 and then it has 2 upgrades, or if the initial tier is 4 and has 1 upgrade), so one can know "oh weird my tier 1 gear i got super early game actually becomes a tier 4/5 piece of gear, and the keeper battle is very likely not something that can be done early game. I'd better wait till i'm stronger"

      "devs expected players to just reload if a Keeper fight turned out to be hopeless for their current forces." You can think wtvr you want. I believe the devs intended the game to be played honestly, and that includes not scouting out keeper fights and then reloading, which I (and many others) consider to be cheating and reload abusing. If you don't, that's fine, there is no way I can convince you, and there is definitely no way you can convince me.

      " I'm talking *the series'* philosophy” That's your interpretation of the game's philosophy. Yes there is a save feature, no game doesn't have a save feature unless it has an ironman mode. The only ironmade mode in KB is based on the player's own honor system. The devs gave the freedom to save and reload if the player wants.

      "even a player who isn't diligent about saving still has the ability to back up” Saving is utilized by those like myself to avoid the myriad bugs that plague the series (DS in particular with it's max rage reduction bug comes to mind, which needs a reload to b4 it struck) or for testing.

      "never made any effort to curb player ability to save and load anywhere" It would make 0 sense for them to curb the ability to save, i'd be outraged even as a true ironman player if one couldn't save. The only thing they could have done was add ironman, but even I wouldn't have used that, because imagine having 1 save with a series this buggy.. nope. Also it's useful to have saves throughout the game so one can go back and see what one had at X juncture or for testing purposes etc. I make great use out of saves, despite never save/reloading in an abusive way.

      "the question of whether it's the intended way to play, which was my actual focus." I don't think it's the intended way either. Neither of us will definitively be able to prove what the devs intentions were, but it doesn't even matter. What matters is the consensus among high level players, and that is that save/reload abuse defeats the purpose of challenge. I don't consider for example a no loss playthrough to be valid if one ever reloads a fight or reloads/save abuses (i.e map stealing reloads in order to island hop to get strong)

      "And always has been; stuff like Scouting being a skill stands out precisely because it's a rare example of an element in the game that doesn't mesh with the expectation that players will load an earlier save readily' No it's the exact opposite. We see FROM scouting that the game intends the player to play honestly, and thus a skill that shows the enemy comps/estimations/exact numbers has merit. If the game intended one to be a save/reload abuser, then the skill should never have been there and would be completely pointless.

      "But I'm still primarily playing these games to relax" That's fine, as i said you can play how you want, only thing that matters is the analysis, which should be from the standpoint of honest high level play, since those most likely to read it are those types of players.

      Let's move on from this topic though, we will never ever see eye to eye on it, and that's ok.

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    6. Alright, answer me this: what do think the auto-save function is *for*?

      To be clear, any variation on explaining how you personally use it (Including informing me you don't use it) is Not A Valid Answer; that's not the question here. Saying (Or implying) that you think they included it in error is also invalid; this was clearly deliberate, and not only kept throughout the series but in fact expanded by Armored Princess to be a more significant mechanic. It's here for a purpose, unambiguously.

      I'd really like to see you actually talk about the game's *design* rather than your clearly intense personal feelings about what constitutes Proper Play; these are distinct things, and throughout our conversations you seem to be unable to grasp the distinction I'm drawing,

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    7. Auto-save is just the way the game has an automatic save for when one goes to a castle or is traveling, since those are ideal places to place an auto-save. I usually close the game after going back to a "home" castle, so the auto-save feature there is great just in case i forgot to save. With traveling to other islands, if one cares about score and accidentally/pointlessly travel to the wrong island, the auto-save feature right before the ship made it's journey is quite convenient. In other games with auto-save feature such as say Stellaris or Battle Brothers, one can have auto-saves after x amount of days/time, or after a battle, every game has different metrics for when it's auto-save activates.

      "Saying (Or implying) that you think they included it in error is also invalid;" huh? no idea what you are implying. But i've said all i'll say on this topic, this doesn't pertain to game knowledge and strategy and doesn't interest me, i'm sorry. The closest that i'll get to "game design" is chronicling bugs that permeate the game that should be noted so others are cognizant of them.

      "talk about the game's *design" i've said what i've said on the topic. I only view kb design from the prism of the challenge and the strategy, even if somehow the devs wanted one to abuse save/reload it wouldn't even slightly affect me or other of us at a high level who play honestly. So the topic is irrelevant.

      "distinct things, and throughout our conversations you seem to be unable to grasp the distinction I'm drawing," maybe its just best to move on to relevant things that affect kb analysis in terms of the strategy and guidance, the actual meat and potatoes (as an aside you do a good job in like the Companion pieces talking about aesthetics and character design etc, I have no issue with that) that I care about. That is also the most important thing that people seeking guidance and answers and ideas and thought provoking analysis go to look for, not some ephemeral mind-reading on dev design choices.

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    8. Yeah, 'autosave is great if I forgot to save' is an example of 'this is how I personally use it', not 'what do I think this is actually for?' ie the thing I said isn't an answer to the actual question. You clearly have never thought about the *why* of King's Bounty's autosave, what it does, what it does not do, how that fits into the rest of the design. Nor thought about how the game could easily have designed its save system differently, nor understood my point in bringing up the way its save system is designed; when I talked about save restrictions, you gave an extremely bizarre response about how you would get up in arms if the game didn't let you save at all, which I don't see why you jumped to that obviously ridiculous scenario from me talking about a more constricted save system.

      To give a concrete example, old-school JRPGs normally let you save anytime you're on the overworld, but not in dungeons. (Or only in specified save points in dungeons, but these are rarely used in a manner that deviates from the implications of this model in a major way) This ensures you can't savescum every individual fight within a dungeon, and have to play through the dungeon as a whole 'honestly'. Similarly, the Souls series constricts saving to bonfires, and then attaches to the process of saving at bonfires that it largely 'resets' the state of the world, and crucially is the only 'free' way to restore your healing; thus, you can't just power through a series of tough fights by spamming self-heals, because if you burn them all on Tough Fight 1 Of 3 and then run back to restore your heals, Tough Fight 1 Of 3 respawns and you've made no real progress.

      The King's Bounty games could've done something closer to these types of systems, but did not, and never tried to move closer to something more constricted. Certainly, something like 'you can only save at castles' with no other changes would be more annoying than substantial in practice, but 'this is pretty obviously just an annoying time waster rather than a meaningful change to the design' hasn't stopped devs from making changes in an attempt to prevent players from playing certain ways. And the King's Bounty games do pretty obviously respond to some of the major aspects of common play, most blatantly in how The Legend's design clearly assumes players can't get through the entire game with zero (meaningful) casualties vs Armored Princess (And, less blatantly, WotN and DS) has its higher difficulties pretty clearly tuned around the expectations that players looking for a challenge will pretty readily get zero casualties in most or all battles.

      Yet they never try to limit player ability to load out of a bad situation, and in fact construct the autosave mechanic so it's a pretty reliable safety net for players who don't think to save before walking into a potentially rough fight. That's telling.

      I'd also like to note that you opened this with talking about 'against the spirit of the game', but are now resisting any attempt to actually discuss what meaningfully *constitutes* the spirit of the game, and have in fact engaged in some rather obnoxious dismissal of any perspective on the topic that deviates from your personal definition of Proper Play. I've been talking about the game design because that *is* 'the spirit of the game'. Your internal 'but that offends my sense of honor!' is *not* 'the spirit of the game'.

      (Also, 'if the devs intended it it wouldn't affect me and I don't care' is wildly inconsistent with you arguing that I'm wrong about what the devs intended and repeatedly pushing me to remove comments about the ability to load readily; you do care. You care enough to tell someone else they are Playing The Game Wrong And Shouldn't Encourage That Kind Of Play, repeatedly. Saying you don't care is ridiculous)

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  8. What Treasure Searcher chests can have inside:
    5% - 1 random rune (all 3 have equal chance)
    5% - magic crystal(s)
    50% chance to get 1
    30% chance to get 2
    15% chance to get 3
    5% chance to get 5
    15% - normal scroll(s)
    80% chance to get 1
    15% chance to get 2
    5% chance to get 3
    3% - Wanderers' scroll
    72% - money

    Ball of Lightning's max damage with all upgrades should be 48%, not 55. Instant kill should not be possible even with Gorguana's help.
    Also, it's ini is 10. It's damage type is Magic.

    Fully upgraded Mana Accelerator uses 25 rage, not 22.

    Mystic Egg is "[Other person/creature]'s Egg" in Russian. Implies either that said person/creature is not anyone related/closely known to you or it's stolen.
    I kinda like English 'magical' name more - if only because the idea of stealing someone babies to use as cannon folder is ...ugh.
    It have ini of 5. It can give you:
    Level 1 - any dragonflies or spiders of that level. Yes, undead spiders too. Are they stillborn or something? Creepy...
    Level 2 - snakes, swamp snakes, fire spiders.
    Level 3 - griffins, royal snakes
    Level 4 - royal griffins, highterrants
    Level 5 - any dragons (undead including)

    Dragon Dive only shoves enemies adjacent to the dragon, yes. It's final cost is 52, not 42.

    Lava Call is just Hot Lava in Russian.
    It's final rest period is 3, not 2. You mentioned it in the damage upgrades part but somehow forgot about it later.

    Fiery Phantoms are Battle Frenzy in Russian. It's final exp should be 37, not 35.

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    1. I cannot believe I made so many errors in calculations. I literally used a calculator! Argh.

      Corrected all the calculation errors, updated hopefully-everything relating to them appropriately. I also included the Treasure Searcher information since it lines up with my experiences.

      I'll get to updating Mystic Egg later, and double-checking Ball of Lightning's Initiative. (The damage type shouldn't matter given it clearly isn't affected by Magic resistance) And probably updating Dragon Dive's shove description -I really ought to have done that ages ago.

      On a different note, yeah, wow, Mystic Egg is much less uncomfortable a name. I've just been vaguely assuming the Baby Dragon was magically creating a magic egg from nowhere, not that it was supposed to be literally stealing unborn babies to throw into combat. I guess this explains the surprisingly mundane animation... but yikes, that's unpleasant a connotation!

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    2. Ball of Lightning should be affected by magic resistance just fine.
      Tested it in game - stack with combined health of 19150 and 50% magic resistance get Ball of Lightning (20-48%) unleashed upon it. If it's bugged and ignores magic resistance, minimum possible damage should be 3830, yet it dealt only 2114 damage.
      Tested it a few more times - it works as it should. No hidden/bugged resistance ignore here.
      Ulness it's some GoG weirdness again.

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    3. Huh. Took some doing, but yeah, I managed to get a damage roll that was below 10% on a Ball of Lightning that shouldn't have been able to do that, against an Emerald Green Dragon with thus 50% Magic resistance. I guess I just got skewed enough rolls historically to give me an incorrect impression?

      Updating the post appropriately.

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