Warriors of the North Unit Analysis Part 10: Lizardmen
Lizardmen are still around... if you're playing Ice and Fire, anyway.
Racial relations-wise...
-2 Morale for Undead presence in allies.
-2 Morale for Undead Lizardmen presence in allies.
-3 Morale for Ice Elf presence in allies.... Lizardmen are a bit less chill than in Armored Princess, being more greatly offended by Undead and being offended by the two new factions to Ice and Fire. The fact that Undead Lizardmen bother them is particularly inconvenient, since there's some clear synergies between the two. But hey, that's what Persuasion 2 is for, right?
Also, they're....
-3 Morale for Dragon presence in allies.... still offended by Dragons, and in fact are much more strongly offended by them. (Including the shiny new Ice Dragons) So too are Dragons offended even more by Lizardmen presence, suffering a -3 penalty, unlike the -1 they suffered in Armored Princess. It's much harder to cram Dragons and Lizardmen together without problems... and no, Persuasion doesn't address the Morale penalty on either end. Alas.
(There's still no double-dipping on hating Bone Dragons, and indeed this actually means that Bone Dragons bother them less than the other Dragon types now, especially since Persuasion does fix that Morale problem)
We've seen Reptile on the snakes, but here it is again so I don't have to do it over and over on each Lizardman unit:
Reptile
+20% Poison
resistance, -20% Ice
resistance, and -30% to Attack and Defense if the battle takes place in a snowy region.As with snakes, this is basically a nerf. Unlike with snakes, it's a justified nerf. Plus there's the thematic aspect, since Lizardmen in Warriors of the North primarily exist in the context of their ongoing war with the Snow Elves. Having them perform poorly in the icy environs Snow Elves prefer is good thematic stuff, getting the gameplay to bear it out.
Also common to Lizardmen is...
Metabolism
Bleeding ends instantly.
... a really niche Ability. Okay, sure. Bleeding is more dangerous in Warriors of the North, but while there's also more options for inflicting it they're still so few and far between it will rarely crop up. I guess it's nice that Snow Elves provide one new source of Bleeding and so it's specifically relevant to the Snow Elf/Lizardman tension? And to be fair, it does make Bloody Madness and now Whispers of
Not universal, but still common is...
Rugged Scales
Non-magical ranged attacks do half damage, plus the unit has some amount of Physical resistance.
... which has been buffed a bit from Armored Princess' days. Awesome.
Gorgul
Level: 3
Hiring Cost: 180
Leadership: 70
Attack/Defense: 20 / 16
Initiative/Speed: 7 / 3
Health: 70
Damage: 5-7 Physical
Resistances: 10% Physical, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
Talents: Running (Charge: 1. +2 Action Points), Bloody Madness (Reload: 2. Attacks all adjacent units, friend and foe alike, for 6-8 Physical damage, inflicting Bleeding on all hit units. Cannot be activated until at least half the stack has been lost)
damage, inflicting Bleeding on all hit units. Cannot be activated until at least half the stack has been lost)
Abilities: Reptile, Spear (Melee attack can strike two targets at once, with no risk of friendly fire), Rugged Scales, Horde (+1 Attack and Defense for every 30 members of the stack, to a max of doubling base Attack and Defense. So to a max of +20/+16 in this case), Bloodlust (When finishing a stack, 50% chance to get an additional full turn), Metabolism
Minor Fire weakness has been replaced by a more severe Ice weakness provided by Reptile, and of course they've picked up Metabolism. Bloody Madness is also actually a reloading Talent instead of a charge-based one, though honestly the fact that Bleeding does damage is probably a bigger deal.
Note that Bloodlust can actually trigger on counterattack-kills. This was true in Armored Princess, but Luck Runes make it more likely you'll stumble into it without even trying. Regardless, conversely note that Bloodlust triggering overrules and wastes a Luck Rune; if you're confident the attack will be a kill, you shouldn't be using a Luck Rune unless you consider the possibility of wasting it acceptable.
Minor Fire weakness has been replaced by a more severe Ice weakness provided by Reptile, and of course they've picked up Metabolism. Bloody Madness is also actually a reloading Talent instead of a charge-based one, though honestly the fact that Bleeding does damage is probably a bigger deal.
Note that Bloodlust can actually trigger on counterattack-kills. This was true in Armored Princess, but Luck Runes make it more likely you'll stumble into it without even trying. Regardless, conversely note that Bloodlust triggering overrules and wastes a Luck Rune; if you're confident the attack will be a kill, you shouldn't be using a Luck Rune unless you consider the possibility of wasting it acceptable.
One nice thing in their favor now is that there's a guaranteed piece of gear that causes Bloody Madness to be available right away... or it's supposed to. Unfortunately, it doesn't actually unlock Bloody Madness; instead it prevents it from appearing at all! Ice and Fire needed a bit more bugtesting before release. Or more patch support. Alas.
Unusually, Gorguls gain neither Initiative nor Speed from leveling, which means they actually tend to suffer relative to other levelable melee units.
A subtle point is that Warriors of the North having much faster, more aggressive combat is a big improvement to Gorguls. It's quite feasible in Warriors of the North to have Gorguls taking out enemy stacks in one or two attacks, particularly if you soften them up with Rage, Spells, and ranged attacks beforehand. Armored Princess' combat was just so much slower that Bloodlust was kind of niche. In turn this means Gorguls are actually a very generally powerful melee option in Warriors of the North, particularly if you don't mind taking the occasional casualty. Given how long it tends to take to get to Lizardmen access... you may well have Grand Strategian already maxed.
As enemies, though, they haven't actually changed that much, and in fact the faster pace of combat and greater ability to kill them with Spells and Rage makes their ability to get into your forces' face rapidly less threatening than in Armored Princess. It's just a lot easier to kill them dead before they get in an attack on your units.
Gorguana
Level: 3
Hiring Cost: 350
Leadership: 120
Attack/Defense: 20 / 24
Initiative/Speed: 4 / 2
Health: 76
Damage (Ranged): 6-10 Magical
Damage (Melee): 5-8 Physical
Resistances: 10% Physical, 20% Poison, 10% Magic, -20% Ice
, 20% Poison, 10% Magic, -20% Ice
Talents: Mark of Blood (Reload: 3. A single target enemy takes doubled damage from all sources for 2 turns), Blood Magic (Charge: 1. Does 9 Magic damage to a single arbitrary target, and if possible heals the Gorguana stack by the amount stolen. The Gorguana stack must drop to 50% or less of its starting numbers before Blood Magic will be available), Whispers of the Creator (Reload: 2. A target allied Gorgul stack immediately attacks all adjacent units, friend and foe alike, for 5-8 Physical damage per Gorguana. Inflicts Bleeding. This does not use up the Gorgul's turn or AP or anything)
damage to a single arbitrary target, and if possible heals the Gorguana stack by the amount stolen. The Gorguana stack must drop to 50% or less of its starting numbers before Blood Magic will be available), Whispers of the Creator (Reload: 2. A target allied Gorgul stack immediately attacks all adjacent units, friend and foe alike, for 5-8 Physical damage per Gorguana. Inflicts Bleeding. This does not use up the Gorgul's turn or AP or anything)
Abilities: Reptile, Magic Missile (Range: 6), Rugged Scales, Magic Protection (+15% Magic resistance) Horde (+1 Attack and Defense for every 30 members of the stack, to a max of doubling base Attack and Defense. So to a max of +20/+24 in this case), Bloodlust (When finishing a stack, 50% chance to get an additional full turn), Metabolism
As with Gorguls, they've switched from a slight Fire weakness to a more notable Ice weakness courtesy of Reptile, and picked up Metabolism. They're also picked up an explicit trait announcing their Magic resistance, picked up some Physical resistance, but lost 4 points of Health for some reason.
Notably, Bleeding has been buffed tremendously, so Whispers of the Creator is a very powerful option indeed. And reminder that it's scaled off the Gorguana count alone, so feel free to use it on a near-dead Gorgul stack.
The piece of gear that's supposed to give Gorguls Bloody Madness right away is similarly supposed to give Gorguanas Blood Magic right away, and in actuality prevents it from unlocking at all. There's... one unit the Item actually properly benefits, unfortunately, though arguably it's the best unit to actually get the benefit so... whatever. I just wish Warriors of the North had gotten patch support for longer.
Counter-intuitively, when using Whispers of the Creator the Gorguana Stack is credited for experience and Frenzy kills and so on.
Like with Gorguls, Gorguanas are also substantially bolstered by Warriors of the North having much faster-paced combat. In Armored Princess, the potential to leverage Bloodlust was pretty eh and didn't really make up for their relatively mediocre damage output, with Blood Mark really being the primary thing that made them worth using. In Warriors of the North, it's entirely possible to chain-kill several stacks on the very first turn with Gorguanas! (You know, having softened them up first with Rage and whatnot) And since Gorguls are more worth using, Whispers of the Creator is a lot more relevant!
Gorguanas are actually pretty cool in Ice and Fire, is what I'm saying.
As with Gorguls, they've switched from a slight Fire weakness to a more notable Ice weakness courtesy of Reptile, and picked up Metabolism. They're also picked up an explicit trait announcing their Magic resistance, picked up some Physical resistance, but lost 4 points of Health for some reason.
Notably, Bleeding has been buffed tremendously, so Whispers of the Creator is a very powerful option indeed. And reminder that it's scaled off the Gorguana count alone, so feel free to use it on a near-dead Gorgul stack.
The piece of gear that's supposed to give Gorguls Bloody Madness right away is similarly supposed to give Gorguanas Blood Magic right away, and in actuality prevents it from unlocking at all. There's... one unit the Item actually properly benefits, unfortunately, though arguably it's the best unit to actually get the benefit so... whatever. I just wish Warriors of the North had gotten patch support for longer.
Counter-intuitively, when using Whispers of the Creator the Gorguana Stack is credited for experience and Frenzy kills and so on.
Like with Gorguls, Gorguanas are also substantially bolstered by Warriors of the North having much faster-paced combat. In Armored Princess, the potential to leverage Bloodlust was pretty eh and didn't really make up for their relatively mediocre damage output, with Blood Mark really being the primary thing that made them worth using. In Warriors of the North, it's entirely possible to chain-kill several stacks on the very first turn with Gorguanas! (You know, having softened them up first with Rage and whatnot) And since Gorguls are more worth using, Whispers of the Creator is a lot more relevant!
Gorguanas are actually pretty cool in Ice and Fire, is what I'm saying.
Also relevant is the addition of Hel the Messenger, which does percent damage and can ultimately reach more than 50%. When you get to that point, Mark of Blood followed by Hel the Messenger is an automatic kill on anything not immune to Hel the Messenger; your ability to abuse this is limited by how many things are immune to Hel the Messenger, not to mention the stat requirements making it firmly a late-game strategy (You're not going to delete a 40,000 Leadership army while down below 5,000 Leadership), but it's a nice trick to keep in mind if you're having trouble with a battlegroup that's susceptible.
Gobot
Level: 1
Hiring Cost: 15
Leadership: 15
Attack/Defense: 7 / 1
Initiative/Speed: 7 / 3
Health: 6
Damage: 1-2 Physical
Resistances: -10% Physical, 10% Poison, -10% Fire
, 10% Poison, -10% Fire
Talents: Division (Charge: 1. Once the stack's numbers fall below half their original size, Division becomes available. When used, the Gobot stack doubles its numbers, emerging in a new location)
Abilities: Worm (-10% Physical and Fire resistance, 10% Poison resistance), Burrow (Movement ignores all intervening terrain and units, and a ranged attack can be performed. Attack range: infinite), No Melee Penalty, Eyeless (Immunity to Blind, Precision, and Greasy Mist. Also can detect invisible creatures), Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Metabolism
No substantial changes. Just Metabolism. This includes that they still are unable to miss in melee aside against Ancient Vampires.
However, where in Armored Princess you were generally better off using Chosha to spawn Gobots, Warriors of the North does two big things to change that. First of all; again, the faster-paced combat favors Gobots. Chosha taking until the second turn to start doing damage (Via their summoned Gobot) is actually a pretty big flaw when a battle in Warriors of the North can easily be over on the second turn. Second of all, the experience system; summons can't gain experience, and Chosha are garbage at generating experience if you're not outright Teleporting them amid your enemies.
It's actually kind of nice, since Gobots have fantastic turn order advantage and so are actually pretty useful to use on that level.
No substantial changes. Just Metabolism. This includes that they still are unable to miss in melee aside against Ancient Vampires.
However, where in Armored Princess you were generally better off using Chosha to spawn Gobots, Warriors of the North does two big things to change that. First of all; again, the faster-paced combat favors Gobots. Chosha taking until the second turn to start doing damage (Via their summoned Gobot) is actually a pretty big flaw when a battle in Warriors of the North can easily be over on the second turn. Second of all, the experience system; summons can't gain experience, and Chosha are garbage at generating experience if you're not outright Teleporting them amid your enemies.
It's actually kind of nice, since Gobots have fantastic turn order advantage and so are actually pretty useful to use on that level.
One bizarre, occasionally frustrating oddity with Burrowing units in Warriors of the North is that in addition to the chest-grabbing oddness from the prior game you now also have an edge-case oddness regarding picking up various chargers, in that if they arrive at the charger location with 0 action points remaining, their turn will end without them picking up the charger. Once their next turn rolls around they'll promptly pick it up... but they won't get an additional action point from it, and if you really needed that extra bit of Mana or Rage last turn, that's a bit late. Don't be sending Gobots, Adult Gobots, or Worms to pick up distant chargers. If you're a big fan of charger effects, you may wish to give these three units a pass, and possibly also Chosha, to avoid this creating problems.
Adult Gobot
Level: 2
Hiring Cost: N/A (But technically 25)
Leadership: 15
Attack/Defense: 11 / 4
Initiative/Speed: 6 / 3
Health: 8
Damage: 2-3 Physical
Resistances: -10% Physical, 10% Poison, -10% Fire
, 10% Poison, -10% Fire
Talents: None.
Abilities: Burrow (Movement ignores all intervening terrain and units, and a ranged attack can be performed. Attack range: infinite), Venomous (30% chance to inflict poisoning for 3 turns on melee and ranged attacks), No Melee Penalty, Eyeless (Immunity to Blind, Precision, and Greasy Mist. Also can detect invisible creatures), Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Metabolism
Same as regular Gobots: they've picked up Metabolism. This includes that they too are unable to miss in melee outside Ancient Vampires dodging crits.
Adult Gobots inherit the Gobot's level-up gains, if it had any. Which is good! It would be awful if a leveled Gobot was a bad idea to convert to Adult by virtue of losing its level-up bonuses.
Since Chosha are a lot less appealing in Ice and Fire, Adult Gobots are less appealing. Straightforward.
Same as regular Gobots: they've picked up Metabolism. This includes that they too are unable to miss in melee outside Ancient Vampires dodging crits.
Adult Gobots inherit the Gobot's level-up gains, if it had any. Which is good! It would be awful if a leveled Gobot was a bad idea to convert to Adult by virtue of losing its level-up bonuses.
Since Chosha are a lot less appealing in Ice and Fire, Adult Gobots are less appealing. Straightforward.
Chosha
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 1100
Leadership: 220
Attack/Defense: 28 / 32
Initiative/Speed: 4 / 1
Health: 190
Damage: 27-33 Physical
Resistances: -10% Physical, 10% Poison, -10% Fire
, 10% Poison, -10% Fire
Talents: Breed Gobots (Reload: 1. Generates a stack of Gobots whose Leadership is 80 per spawning Chosha in an adjacent tile), Feed (Charge: 1. Attacks an adjacent enemy for 50 Physical damage, healing and resurrecting dead Chosha. Cannot be activated until the Chosha has lost at least 50% of its original numbers), Initiation (Reload: 1. All allied Gobots become Adult Gobots)
damage, healing and resurrecting dead Chosha. Cannot be activated until the Chosha has lost at least 50% of its original numbers), Initiation (Reload: 1. All allied Gobots become Adult Gobots)
Abilities: Worm (-10% Physical and Fire resistance, 10% Poison resistance) Stationary (Action Points cannot be spent on movement, and 'push' and 'pull' effects don't work on Chosha. They can still be Teleported), Persistence of Mind (Immune to mental effects), Metabolism
Other than having an Ability directly alluding to their resistance pool, and of course Metabolism, Chosha are unchanged.
Chosha in player hands barely benefit from the experience system unless you're going to abuse Teleport or have tremendous patience: Breed Gobots and Initiation both only generate 5 experience when you need 10,000 for Level 10. Warriors of the North also has much faster-paced combat than Armored Princess, such that a unit that's strong when matches drag on really isn't that great in the first place. Probably best to skip right over them, unfortunately.
Other than having an Ability directly alluding to their resistance pool, and of course Metabolism, Chosha are unchanged.
Chosha in player hands barely benefit from the experience system unless you're going to abuse Teleport or have tremendous patience: Breed Gobots and Initiation both only generate 5 experience when you need 10,000 for Level 10. Warriors of the North also has much faster-paced combat than Armored Princess, such that a unit that's strong when matches drag on really isn't that great in the first place. Probably best to skip right over them, unfortunately.
Brontor
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 1300
Leadership: 230
Attack/Defense: 30 / 40 (20 / 50)
Initiative/Speed: 3 / 1 (3 / 2)
Health: 180
Damage: 15-18 Physical (12-14 Physical)
(12-14 Physical)
Resistances: 10% Physical, 20% Poison, -10% Fire, -20% Ice (20% Poison, -20% Ice)
, 20% Poison, -10% Fire, -20% Ice (20% Poison, -20% Ice)
Talents: Ram (Reload: 2. Runs directly in a straight line to hit a target with no chance for retaliation. Distance is infinite. Base damage is 15-18 Physical damage, but each tile traveled increases this by 20% of base. Unavailable when Burrowed), Burrow (Reload: 2. Brontor immobilizes itself, raising Defense and allowing it to performed ranged attacks. Not available when Burrowed), Surface (Reload: 2. Brontor exits Burrowed state. Only available when Burrowed. Shares Reload timer with Burrow)
damage, but each tile traveled increases this by 20% of base. Unavailable when Burrowed), Burrow (Reload: 2. Brontor immobilizes itself, raising Defense and allowing it to performed ranged attacks. Not available when Burrowed), Surface (Reload: 2. Brontor exits Burrowed state. Only available when Burrowed. Shares Reload timer with Burrow)
Abilities: Reptile, Triple-horned (Melee attacks strike enemies to the side of the target as well), Rugged Scales, Spiked (Automatically retaliates against melee attacks, infinitely. This does 5-10 Physical damage), Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Metabolism
), Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Metabolism
Burrowed Abilities: Reptile, Stationary (Can't move or be moved), Cannot Counter (Can't perform standard retaliations), Rugged Scales, Spiked (Automatically retaliates against melee attacks, infinitely. This does 5-10 Physical damage), Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Metabolism
), Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Metabolism(Note that the stat numbers in parentheses are still the burrowed form's numbers)
Reptile and Metabolism, plus they've picked up a bit of Physical resistance, making them just a bit better as a general tank.
Annoyingly, where in Armored Princess Burrowing abandoned their weakness with no loss, in Warriors of the North they drop their Fire weakness but also drop their Physical resistance, and they still have their Ice weakness from Reptile. Burrowing is thus less appealing. (It could be worse, mind; the English version doesn't list Metabolism when Burrowed, even though they actually do still instantly purge Bleeding)
The effective range in Burrowed form is still 5. The ranged attack is still also immune to evasion -except, unfortunately, Ancient Vampires dodging crits.
Bizarrely, even though it's quite clear that Burrowing and Unburrowing is the same form of unit-swapping as eg Werewolf Elves transforming, mechanically, Phantom Brontors actually can Burrow and Unburrow just fine.
Spiked has been tweaked a bit. It still triggers in a lot of situations its description would seem to imply is a bug, but I kind of suspect Ice and Fire just embraced the idea of always-on Spikes given that the Ram-Thor over in Undead Lizardmen has no burrowing at all and yet still gets Spiked. What has been fixed is that units hitting Brontors by striking through another unit (eg Red or Black Dragons with their breath, Gorguls or Advisors with their spear) no longer get retaliated against. Which is nice, because that bit in particular was just demented.
Brontors are, alongside Chosha, the main Lizardman unit that suffers under Warriors of the North's faster combat. They're still shockingly slow to die, even when picking on their new Ice weakness, but it's a lot harder to justify using their Burrowed ranged attack when other, faster and harder-hitting units can end the fight so much sooner and in turn suffer less casualties as a result, and Spiked is actually a lot less bothersome because your units are prone to tearing off huge chunks per hit. In Armored Princess, combat was slow enough your units could suffer egregious casualties in the process of meleeing a Brontor just due to Spiked. In Warriors of the North? Not so much.
I actually appreciate this overall, as Brontors tended to be a bit too much of a slowing hurdle in Armored Princess. It's just too bad they're on the eh side for your own purposes now.
Bizarrely, even though it's quite clear that Burrowing and Unburrowing is the same form of unit-swapping as eg Werewolf Elves transforming, mechanically, Phantom Brontors actually can Burrow and Unburrow just fine.
Spiked has been tweaked a bit. It still triggers in a lot of situations its description would seem to imply is a bug, but I kind of suspect Ice and Fire just embraced the idea of always-on Spikes given that the Ram-Thor over in Undead Lizardmen has no burrowing at all and yet still gets Spiked. What has been fixed is that units hitting Brontors by striking through another unit (eg Red or Black Dragons with their breath, Gorguls or Advisors with their spear) no longer get retaliated against. Which is nice, because that bit in particular was just demented.
Brontors are, alongside Chosha, the main Lizardman unit that suffers under Warriors of the North's faster combat. They're still shockingly slow to die, even when picking on their new Ice weakness, but it's a lot harder to justify using their Burrowed ranged attack when other, faster and harder-hitting units can end the fight so much sooner and in turn suffer less casualties as a result, and Spiked is actually a lot less bothersome because your units are prone to tearing off huge chunks per hit. In Armored Princess, combat was slow enough your units could suffer egregious casualties in the process of meleeing a Brontor just due to Spiked. In Warriors of the North? Not so much.
I actually appreciate this overall, as Brontors tended to be a bit too much of a slowing hurdle in Armored Princess. It's just too bad they're on the eh side for your own purposes now.
Highterant
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 260
Leadership: 150
Attack/Defense: 31 / 29
Initiative/Speed: 6 / 6
Health: 110
Damage: 7-13 Physical
Resistances: 20% Magic, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
Talents: Lay Egg (Charge: 1. Lays an egg that hatches the following turn, producing a Highterant stack that's half the size, rounded down, of the egg-laying stack's size at the time the Talent was used)
Abilities: Reptile, Flight, Sharp Beak (If the Highterant is flying in a straight line for at least two tiles before attacking, the hit is a crit), Magic Protection (20% Magic resistance), Metabolism
Got renamed (Bringing them in line with the internal files), picked up Reptile and Metabolism and some Poison resistance out of Reptile. Otherwise same ol' same ol'.
Warriors of the North does shift the way you use them in real terms, particularly if you're playing a Viking and thus ultimately have much more lethal crits; in Armored Princess, Hayterants were most notable for their ability to make a meatshield that made a meatshield that made a meatshield and so on, with their offense being.... existent. Stuff dies fast enough in Warriors of the North that Sharp Beak is actually a pretty nice edge, whereas Lay Egg is a bit slow to pay off and often not even necessary.
This actually makes it less frustrating to fight oversized stacks of Hayterants and makes them a bit more distinctive from Royal Griffins, who are still more of a supporting unit than a direct attacker, and in fact are more so since trying to take advantage of Furious in Warriors of the North is tricky.
So actually even though little has been changed about Highterants, they actually work a lot better in Ice and Fire!
Got renamed (Bringing them in line with the internal files), picked up Reptile and Metabolism and some Poison resistance out of Reptile. Otherwise same ol' same ol'.
Warriors of the North does shift the way you use them in real terms, particularly if you're playing a Viking and thus ultimately have much more lethal crits; in Armored Princess, Hayterants were most notable for their ability to make a meatshield that made a meatshield that made a meatshield and so on, with their offense being.... existent. Stuff dies fast enough in Warriors of the North that Sharp Beak is actually a pretty nice edge, whereas Lay Egg is a bit slow to pay off and often not even necessary.
This actually makes it less frustrating to fight oversized stacks of Hayterants and makes them a bit more distinctive from Royal Griffins, who are still more of a supporting unit than a direct attacker, and in fact are more so since trying to take advantage of Furious in Warriors of the North is tricky.
So actually even though little has been changed about Highterants, they actually work a lot better in Ice and Fire!
Tirex
Level: 5
Hiring Cost: 13,000
Leadership: 2000
Attack/Defense: 65 / 55
Initiative/Speed: 6 / 4
Health: 1000
Damage: 80-120 Physical
Resistances: 15% Physical, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
Talents: Primal Fear (Reload: 2. All enemies who are below the Tirex stack's Leadership and are not immune to mental effects take 10-40 Physical damage per Tirex and also have their current Action Points halved), Eat Corpse (Reload: 2. Destroys an adjacent corpse, fully healing the 'top' Tirex and resetting the stack's Action Point total)
damage per Tirex and also have their current Action Points halved), Eat Corpse (Reload: 2. Destroys an adjacent corpse, fully healing the 'top' Tirex and resetting the stack's Action Point total)
Abilities: Reptile, Tyrant (-30% Defense to adjacent enemies), Rugged Scales, Giant Lizardman (+ Morale to all friendly Lizardmen), Terrible (50% chance to inflict Fear with melee attack against units below Level 5 for 2 turns. An attack that successfully inflicts Fear cannot be retaliated against), Predator (The Tirex automatically consumes the corpse of any stack it finishes off, benefiting as if it had used Eat Corpse, but without affecting the actual Talent's reload state), Metabolism
No substantial changes, aside from picking up Reptile and Metabolism. Even Rugged Scales granting Physical resistance hasn't done anything for them, since they already had 15% Physical resistance. On the plus side, Predator's description now correctly informs you of its actual behavior in-game instead of calling the description of an Undead Dragon Talent. The only direct change is that Primal Fear now ignores Attack and Defense modifiers -which is almost always a nerf given the Tirex's massive Attack stat. I don't understand why this was done to it... it's not like it was good in Armored Princess.
MAJOR BUG NOTE: Don't let a Tirex finish off a burrowed Brontor stack. This crashes the game every single time I've had it happen, full stop. I assume it has to do with Predator triggering in conjunction with the Brontor unburrowing as part of its death. (Probably the game cleans up the unit, then attempts to change it to an unburrowed Brontor and kill it, and freaks out because there's nothing to change) Fortunately, since a burrowed Brontor can't initiate a melee attack, you don't need to worry about a counterattack triggering it, so that's something.
No substantial changes, aside from picking up Reptile and Metabolism. Even Rugged Scales granting Physical resistance hasn't done anything for them, since they already had 15% Physical resistance. On the plus side, Predator's description now correctly informs you of its actual behavior in-game instead of calling the description of an Undead Dragon Talent. The only direct change is that Primal Fear now ignores Attack and Defense modifiers -which is almost always a nerf given the Tirex's massive Attack stat. I don't understand why this was done to it... it's not like it was good in Armored Princess.
MAJOR BUG NOTE: Don't let a Tirex finish off a burrowed Brontor stack. This crashes the game every single time I've had it happen, full stop. I assume it has to do with Predator triggering in conjunction with the Brontor unburrowing as part of its death. (Probably the game cleans up the unit, then attempts to change it to an unburrowed Brontor and kill it, and freaks out because there's nothing to change) Fortunately, since a burrowed Brontor can't initiate a melee attack, you don't need to worry about a counterattack triggering it, so that's something.
ALSO: don't finish off a Sheeped stack either! This will also cause a crash, almost certainly for the exact same reason! This, incidentally, is why Armored Princess didn't let Predator trigger in these two cases: the game handles it extremely poorly.
A couple things that were true back in Armored Princess but are far more visible/relevant to Warriors of the North; first of all, Predator is actually somewhat-discerning, with the Tirex not automatically devouring Undead, Plants, or Cyclops. (You can still use Eat Corpse on the body left behind, though) Second of all, Predator actually does reset the Tirex's action point total just like Eat Corpse, it's just you can only see this in action during a counter-attack. This can of course be arranged by simply pausing the Tirex stack nearby an enemy that then gets killed when it triggers a retaliation, but in particular it can be something you stumble into through a Luck Rune triggering and giving them only 1 AP and then they kill something on a retaliation and suddenly have 4 AP.
Also worth mentioning is that Eat Corpse, unlike most healing effects, can actually be activated even when the Tirex is completely uninjured. This means you can use it to hop the Tirex forward in the early stages of a fight if you've already struck down an enemy stack, and it also makes it a little easier to grind up experience on the Tirex since Eat Corpse provides a decent amount of experience in its own right.
One very odd thing is that a Tirex seems to, when killing a unit Predator can trigger on, generate experience as if it killed the unit and then immediately used Eat Corpse on it. The Tirex is thus able to level faster than you might expect.
Aside the frustrating bug with Brontors and Sheeped units, Tirexes have substantially benefited from Warriors of the North's faster combat, and are a shocking amount of fun to use!
... even if Primal Fear is still kind of terrible. (It usually doesn't even provide decent experience!)
Advisor
A new Lizardman unit!
... it's lifted from Red Sands, like a lot of Ice and Fire's content. Which is fine! Advisors are actually pretty cool.
Note that the gear that lets Gorguls and Gorguanas do half-stack Talents also lets the Advisor use Revenge, which is really nice because Revenge is a very general buff. And unlike the Gorgul and Gorguana, it actually works! Being able to give an ally a second turn and then immediately give your entire army a 30% damage buff is quite nice.
One thing that's actually fairly infuriating about Advisors is the AI seems to use Scragg Power to deliberately push your troops into your own Traps, even though the AI is supposed to behave as if it doesn't know where your Traps are. It's possible it's just been really weird improbable luck on my part, but I'm almost completely certain it's not; no other explanation jives with the pattern of arrival point choices I've consistently gotten. This is particularly maddening if you're a Soothsayer and so your Traps are incredibly lethal, but even for a Viking or Skald this can lead to stuff like an Advisor stack that's down to 3 members personally landing no kills on one of your stacks but then the Trap inflicts two dozen casualties. All you can really do is try to obsessively ensure your units are never adjacent to a Trap -and this has the problem that if the enemy has multiple Advisor stacks they can absolutely shove you multiple times. They don't seem to pre-plan this, fortunately, but if you've got Trapper high enough to have 3 Traps it's not that hard for them to coincidentally pick a shove that ends up setting up for another shove to push your unit in a Trap.
Though Advisors are a melee attacker, their access to a teleport-attack that doesn't provoke retaliations means they're a shockingly good melee unit. They don't have to wait to start doing damage by virtue of needing to cross the field, and that initial hit -the most important one for this purpose- is going to be free. Just Wait, Scragg Power when it's their turn again, and then start tearing into weakened stacks and arranging to hit multiple stacks via their spear. While Daring In Battle and Fighting to Death aren't terribly important traits in practice, Advisors end up being a really good unit anyway. And they passively make Gorguls and Gorguanas even better!
Though, as covered before, they can be pretty frustrating to fight, even though they have a habit of not even using Commander's Will. I tend to try to make them a priority target.
Elder
-----------------------------
I quite like what Ice and Fire does with Lizardmen, overall, and it's too bad this is the last time we see them. They don't come back in Dark Side -the odd thing is, there's new code that clearly indicates they were meant to be in Dark Side- and of course there's not been a new King's Bounty game since Dark Side.
Anyway, next time we move on to the super-new content Ice and Fire adds, starting with Snow Elves.
A couple things that were true back in Armored Princess but are far more visible/relevant to Warriors of the North; first of all, Predator is actually somewhat-discerning, with the Tirex not automatically devouring Undead, Plants, or Cyclops. (You can still use Eat Corpse on the body left behind, though) Second of all, Predator actually does reset the Tirex's action point total just like Eat Corpse, it's just you can only see this in action during a counter-attack. This can of course be arranged by simply pausing the Tirex stack nearby an enemy that then gets killed when it triggers a retaliation, but in particular it can be something you stumble into through a Luck Rune triggering and giving them only 1 AP and then they kill something on a retaliation and suddenly have 4 AP.
Also worth mentioning is that Eat Corpse, unlike most healing effects, can actually be activated even when the Tirex is completely uninjured. This means you can use it to hop the Tirex forward in the early stages of a fight if you've already struck down an enemy stack, and it also makes it a little easier to grind up experience on the Tirex since Eat Corpse provides a decent amount of experience in its own right.
One very odd thing is that a Tirex seems to, when killing a unit Predator can trigger on, generate experience as if it killed the unit and then immediately used Eat Corpse on it. The Tirex is thus able to level faster than you might expect.
Aside the frustrating bug with Brontors and Sheeped units, Tirexes have substantially benefited from Warriors of the North's faster combat, and are a shocking amount of fun to use!
... even if Primal Fear is still kind of terrible. (It usually doesn't even provide decent experience!)
Advisor
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 1850
Leadership: 300
Attack/Defense: 30 / 35
Initiative/Speed: 4 / 3
Health: 200
Damage: 10-14 Physical +5-7 Magical
+5-7 Magical
Resistances: 15% Physical, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
, 20% Poison, -20% Ice
Talents: Commander's Will (Reload: 3. An allied unit below Level 5 whose Leadership is 600 or less per Advisor is given a second turn. Cannot target Undead. Lizardmen who are targeted also gain 10% crit chance for a turn. Does not end the Advisor's turn. Alternatively, can be targeted on the Advisors themselves, in which case they gain 10 Attack and 10% crit chance for 2 turns, but become uncontrolled for the duration. This doesn't end their turn), Scragg Power (Reload: 4. Instantly teleports to a tile adjacent to another unit, friend or foe, doing 8-12 Physical damage to all adjacent units. Units below Level 4 are pushed back), Revenge (Charge: 1. All allied troops do 30% more damage for 3 turns. The effect lasts for 6 turns on Lizardmen. Only available when at or below 50% of original numbers, and doesn't benefit Undead, Plants, or inorganic units)
damage to all adjacent units. Units below Level 4 are pushed back), Revenge (Charge: 1. All allied troops do 30% more damage for 3 turns. The effect lasts for 6 turns on Lizardmen. Only available when at or below 50% of original numbers, and doesn't benefit Undead, Plants, or inorganic units)
Abilities: Reptile, Enchanted Spear (Attacks can penetrate enemies, base damage is mixed Magical/Physical, and melee strikes have a 50% chance of removing a single positive effect from affected enemies. No friendly fire risk), Protector (Allied Gorguls and Gorguanas have +5 Attack and +1 Initiative), Rugged Scales, Daring in Battle (Each time the Advisor finishes off an enemy stack, they gain 1 Physical Damage for every Level of the stack's unit type, up to a maximum of 25 extra Damage), Fighting to Death (If the Advisor stack is below 50% of its original size, or if there are no other stacks on its side at all, the Advisor stack has unlimited retaliations), Metabolism
Damage for every Level of the stack's unit type, up to a maximum of 25 extra Damage), Fighting to Death (If the Advisor stack is below 50% of its original size, or if there are no other stacks on its side at all, the Advisor stack has unlimited retaliations), MetabolismA new Lizardman unit!
... it's lifted from Red Sands, like a lot of Ice and Fire's content. Which is fine! Advisors are actually pretty cool.
Note that the gear that lets Gorguls and Gorguanas do half-stack Talents also lets the Advisor use Revenge, which is really nice because Revenge is a very general buff. And unlike the Gorgul and Gorguana, it actually works! Being able to give an ally a second turn and then immediately give your entire army a 30% damage buff is quite nice.
Alas, Advisors are still bugged. They're supposed to be able to dispel buffs from enemies they attack, including with Scragg Power, but it will never actually happen. Admittedly Warriors of the North's fast-paced combat puts a lot less emphasis on buffs, but it's still an unfortunate error.
One thing that's actually fairly infuriating about Advisors is the AI seems to use Scragg Power to deliberately push your troops into your own Traps, even though the AI is supposed to behave as if it doesn't know where your Traps are. It's possible it's just been really weird improbable luck on my part, but I'm almost completely certain it's not; no other explanation jives with the pattern of arrival point choices I've consistently gotten. This is particularly maddening if you're a Soothsayer and so your Traps are incredibly lethal, but even for a Viking or Skald this can lead to stuff like an Advisor stack that's down to 3 members personally landing no kills on one of your stacks but then the Trap inflicts two dozen casualties. All you can really do is try to obsessively ensure your units are never adjacent to a Trap -and this has the problem that if the enemy has multiple Advisor stacks they can absolutely shove you multiple times. They don't seem to pre-plan this, fortunately, but if you've got Trapper high enough to have 3 Traps it's not that hard for them to coincidentally pick a shove that ends up setting up for another shove to push your unit in a Trap.
Though Advisors are a melee attacker, their access to a teleport-attack that doesn't provoke retaliations means they're a shockingly good melee unit. They don't have to wait to start doing damage by virtue of needing to cross the field, and that initial hit -the most important one for this purpose- is going to be free. Just Wait, Scragg Power when it's their turn again, and then start tearing into weakened stacks and arranging to hit multiple stacks via their spear. While Daring In Battle and Fighting to Death aren't terribly important traits in practice, Advisors end up being a really good unit anyway. And they passively make Gorguls and Gorguanas even better!
Though, as covered before, they can be pretty frustrating to fight, even though they have a habit of not even using Commander's Will. I tend to try to make them a priority target.
Elder
Level: 4
Hiring Cost: 1380
Leadership: 240
Attack/Defense: 24 / 34
Initiative/Speed: 5 / 2
Health: 150
Damage (Ranged): 11-17 Magical
Damage (Melee): 5-8 Physical
Resistances: 10% Physical, 20% Poison, 50% Magic, -20% Ice
, 20% Poison, 50% Magic, -20% Ice
Talents: Invisible Connection (Reload: 4. Two units are selected. Until the effect ends, up to 50% of the damage dealt to the first stack will also be dealt to the second stack. Base duration is 5 turns, but this duration is reduced by 1 each time the effect is activated), Confusion (Reload: 3. All enemies below Level 5 who are susceptible to mental effects and whose current Leadership is less than the Elder stack's leadership lose half their Speed or Initiative for 2 turns. Orc stacks instead lose half their Adrenaline)
Abilities: Reptile, Magic Missile (Range: 6), Rugged Scales, Persistence of Mind (Immunity to mental effects), Exorcist's Staff (30% chance to inflict a random negative effect for 3 turns with their ranged attack. This can be Helplessness, Weakness or Slow, but will not trigger against Level 5 units. Behaves as the Level 1 version of whichever Spell was chosen), Magic Protection (50% Magic resistance), Metabolism
The Gorguana elite where the Advisor is a Gorgul elite. And yes, it's also Red Sands content.
Unlike the Advisor, the Elder is sort of interesting-looking, but honestly probably less useful than a Gorguana is. Invisible Connection is incredibly obnoxious coming from enemy Elders, but for the player it's pretty limited in utility, and Confusion is hampered by the tendency for you to be fighting Undead. Even when it is relevant, you can't count on getting a given effect, and the effect you get can be useless depending on the unit it hits. And of course it's bounded by Leadership, making it even more limited. Exorcist's Staff is unreliable all-around, having too low a rate of infliction to be counted on, especially if you're using its Talents and thus spending fewer turns making ranged attacks. When it does trigger, its effects are also pretty low-impact...
Still, it's not actually a bad unit, and against Orcs Confusion is actually reliably useful and can be really nice for shutting off some of the more annoying Adrenaline Level-based things Orcs can do.
It's just... mostly kind of boring, is the problem.
The Gorguana elite where the Advisor is a Gorgul elite. And yes, it's also Red Sands content.
Unlike the Advisor, the Elder is sort of interesting-looking, but honestly probably less useful than a Gorguana is. Invisible Connection is incredibly obnoxious coming from enemy Elders, but for the player it's pretty limited in utility, and Confusion is hampered by the tendency for you to be fighting Undead. Even when it is relevant, you can't count on getting a given effect, and the effect you get can be useless depending on the unit it hits. And of course it's bounded by Leadership, making it even more limited. Exorcist's Staff is unreliable all-around, having too low a rate of infliction to be counted on, especially if you're using its Talents and thus spending fewer turns making ranged attacks. When it does trigger, its effects are also pretty low-impact...
Still, it's not actually a bad unit, and against Orcs Confusion is actually reliably useful and can be really nice for shutting off some of the more annoying Adrenaline Level-based things Orcs can do.
It's just... mostly kind of boring, is the problem.
-----------------------------
I quite like what Ice and Fire does with Lizardmen, overall, and it's too bad this is the last time we see them. They don't come back in Dark Side -the odd thing is, there's new code that clearly indicates they were meant to be in Dark Side- and of course there's not been a new King's Bounty game since Dark Side.
Anyway, next time we move on to the super-new content Ice and Fire adds, starting with Snow Elves.
My ultimate tactic right now is one stack of advisors, armageddon and turn back time. No unit is better for executing this tactic. Their teleportation allows to get to enemy ranged units and damage everything in the proximity, then retaliate to everything else, very often one retaliation will hit 2 enemies. Then in the next round you simply wait and let them retaliate to everything else again. At the end you turn back time and depending on what is left on the battlefield you go grab chests or teleport to something to finish it off or simply end the turn to remain safe. And by the third turn enemies are still far. Though one flaw (if you get greedy and teleport again) is that their initiative is low and if something is still alive after this slaughter it is quite likely it will attack and quite probably will be killed in return ending the battle before you get to cast resurrection spells.
ReplyDeleteI only regret I am not a mage, casting magic twice in these 2 rounds would be way more fun, not to mention if I am lucky to cast rage attacks twice.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOops.
ReplyDeleteAlright, the lizardmen comment.
Originally Metabolism was supposed to remove Poison status effect in addition to Bleed. Make sense, considering ability name.
Rugged scales still work the same way as in AP in regards of ranged attacks; damage is halved when 3 conditions are met (at the same time): 1) Attack (talents including) is, well, ranged i.e. made from a distance of 1 tile or more. 2) It's made by a unit that is natural ranged attacker i.e. it has a ranged attack among it's base ones, not just talents (so Imps' or Ents' talents will still deal full damage). 3) Attacker is not classified as 'mage'.
Item that should unlock Gorgul's and Gorguan's talents doesn't just not work for them - it outright makes Bloody Madness and Blood Magic impossible to unlock even by the normal way.
Well, technically the item itself is fine, but the ability* that (un)locks Bloody Madness/Blood Magic has VERY obvious mistake in code related to interacting with said item. How did no one noticed it?..
*Gorgul's/Gorguana's version of Horde, just like in AP.
Gorguls' Bloody Madness is not "one point stronger" - it's damage is the same. What changed about it is that now it has 2 turn reload instead of having 1 charge. This, along with the item that unlock it (should one fix the bug) and new bleed, makes it a very nice talent IMO.
Like I said in AP comment, Bloodlust could indeed trigger on counterattack in AP and I saw it happen in-game.
Gorguana's health got reduced by 5% - now it's 76. 'Sigh' What a pointlessly uneven number.
She also got 10% physical resistance, which you missed. No magic resistance increase - same 10% as in AP.
Melee damage is 5-8 physical.
Kinda strange that Whispers of the Creator now have exact damage numbers in the description (instead of vague 'deals damage' from AP) yet Bleed is still unmentioned.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention that combination of Mark of Blood and Messenger of Hel spell (or whatever it's name in English version) allows to instakill any living stack regardless of it's size. Yes, we mostly fight Undead, but in the moments we don't... 'Nostalgically thinks about NWN, DC stacking and instakilling everything'
Both Gobots still can't miss in melee. I still don't understand logic behind it.
If it was their ranged attack that could not miss, it would kinda make sense and would be thematically consistent with Burrowed Brontor's attack - it's hard to dodge a sudden attack from below one's feet. But noooo, it's only bite that can't miss. Side note - there is something funny in Gobot's melee animation, right? Or it's just me?
Adult Gobot's useless hiring cost is 25.
It keeps levels because, like I said in the AP comment, mechanically Gobots tranform into Adult Gobots the same way as Vampire turn into Bats. Removal of current effects including.
Single Chosha Breed 80 leadership of Gobots, not 88. Level up bonus again? Or Creation 1?
Feed still won't heal Chosha when used on inorganic units.
Burrowed Brontor has effective range of 5.
It had increased defense in burrowed state in AP as well.
What made you think being burrowed remove Metabolism? It's still here, both in gameplay and in description. Well, in the original one atleast.
Burrowed attack still can't miss. And WotN has no small number of Ancient Vampires among enemies...
Highterant's hiring cost is 260.
Tirex does not have fire weakness.
Terrible have 50% chance to triger, can't trigger on counerattacks, works on 1-4 creatures and lasts for 2 turns.
Primal Fear deals physical damage. It can't trigger Predator anymore.
Advisor is Counsilor in the original. Now, out of context this mistranslation is understandable... only, translator must have seen the internal name, which is 'gorguana_council'.
DeleteHe is supposed to be a memeber of Lizardmen ruling priestly counsil. So he is a commanding warrior-priest/lizard paladin.
His attack deals 10-14 physical damage + 5-7 magical. So it's actually 33% of base damage that is magical. Also, Enchanted Spear dispel effect doesn't work due to sloppy scripting. If fixed, it will work even on Scragg Power, but won't trigger on level 5 creatures or on allies.
Also, I wonder why it's creator even wrote a new script for that in the first palce, when there is already a perfectly fine 'dispel a random buff on attack' effect, used by Volhv base attacks and Skeleton Archer's Black Arrow.
Protector is Mentor/Spiritual Guide in the original. He is a priest who teaches and inspire his warriors, increasing their stats. In case of English version, why does someone's advisor protect regular soldiers and how exactly his protection makes them better at attacking and reacting?
Daring in Battle is '[Word] of battle' in Russian. [Word] is the as one that is used by the Jarl's ability that increases attack after crit. It's bonus damage is physical and only affects base attack.
Fighting to Death is more like Last Stand in Russian.
At some point self-applied Commander's Will also increased some resistances by 15%. In fact, it's status effect description still tells about Councilor having increased pain tolerance.
Scragg Power is more like Might of Scraggs in Russian. 'Might' here is the word that usually used for something bigger/above single normal person. Like might of an army/country. Or God's/Devil's might. Fitting name for a lizard paladin.
Also, it's damage is purely physical. Like I said earlier, If Enchanted Spear's dispel effect is fixed, Might of Scraggs will also dispel a random buff from each of affected enemies; unlike damage dispel will not only affect allies.
Revenge does not affect Undead, inorganic units (both are mentioned by original description) and plants (those aren't). Also, I like it's description, in part because lizardmen often portrayed as cold-blooded in both senses + leaders of 'dark' races usually have "common soldiers=cannon fodder" view in fantasy. While in KB we have a commander who feels MADDENING RAGE upon seeing death of his warriors. It's internal name is outright 'blood_for_blood'.
Elder's melee damage is 5-8, physical. Ranged is magical.
Exorcist's Staff? What? Why exorcist? And since when exorcists curse people? In the original it's just very generic Caster's Staff. Anyway, it only works on ranged attacks and doesn't affect level 5 units. It can apply either Weakness, Hopelessness or Slow. They last for 3 turns and are cast at unusual level 1.
Confusion, interestingly enough, ingnores invisible enemies.
To me Elder feels as if he(?) misses some abilitiy or talent. There is some checks in Caster's Staff that may imply that there could be some AoE damaging talent planned. Alas, I see nothing else hinting on it's existance.
As you may remember, Darkside Lizardmen got shafted due to budget problems. They were supposed to inhabit what is now Amazonia.
P.S. I somehow deleted my original post instead replying to it. 'facepalm'
Okay, finally got to some of this. So first of all; confirmed that yes the Item SUPPRESSES the under-half Talents on Gorguls and Gorguanas, all but confirmed Advisors don't clear buffs (Enemy Advisor spearing two of troops four times never dispelled Battle Cry; that COULD be luck, but at a 50% trigger chance it's rather unlikely), confirmed the Gorguana resistances (I probably derped and forgot about the Soothsayer Skill throwing in 10% Magic resistance), Tirex resistance, and Bloody Madness stuff, double-checked Brontor Burrowed Metabolism (It's not listed, but slicing them with White Werewolves inflicts Bleeding only to instantly cure it), confirmed Breed Gobot's actual number (Almost certainly Creation confusing me again), etc. I think I got everything?
DeleteI'd guess the Advisor dispel is new scripting because of the friendly fire point; Soothsayers and Black Arrow can't hit allies with their dispel-on-hit. Since the dispel is supposed to work with Scragg Power and Scragg Power does friendly fire, this would matter.
I didn't mention Mark of Blood's synergy with Hel the Messenger (Yes, that's really how it got translated) because I didn't notice until after all these posts went up that it scales past 50%. I've added in commentary now.
Ah, I'd noticed the Advisor's internal name bit, and had wondered about it. Warpriest councilor makes a lot more sense -it's consistent with what we saw of Lizardmen society in Armored Princess. In general it's a bit sad how butchered the Advisor is by the translation; an angry warrior priest Lizardman screaming BLOOD FOR BLOOD, NEVER GIVE IN is great, coherent, and even contextualizes their visual direction (They look dark and angry because they ARE), where the English translation is just... confused-seeming.
At least the Elder came out the other side mostly-intact?
First of all, I screwd up again - 'No miss' trait doesn't ignore Ancient Vampire pseuso-miss in the final version. So Burrowed Brontor is not as effective against them. And you experience of units getting crit against Ancient Vampires must have different explanation.
ReplyDeletePre-made effects' whole point of existance is removing need to code on-hit Burn/Freeze/Dispel buff/Fear etc. each time. You just set chance and checks, choose the effect - and it's ready.
In Advisor's case - just set check for 'target is not ally' before applying the dispel. Being AoE is not important; an effect is applied to each target individually.
Instead, there is a whole new script that checks levels, if target is ally, current effects, what are buffs, making a roll... And have a few mistakes along the way.
It's just looks weird.
Maybe it's not that important but again, Daring in Battle adds physical damage.
So It's just English localization that made Burrowed Brontor Metabolism invisible for some reason.
Hel the Messenger? What? Hel is Norse godess of death/underworld. Messenger of Hel = Messenger of Death. Death the Messenger makes no sense.
About Elder - I still can't understand where did 'Exorcist' came from. It's impossible to misunderstand the original name that way, and it has no correlation to what this ability does. It's just so random.
Corrected stuff. (I missed the Daring in Battle commentary entirely, yeah)
DeleteWell, WotN was developed by a new team (I really should overhaul the WotN and DS intro posts...), and you've already noted some cases of coding that clearly doesn't understand key terminology and whatnot; they may have thought Scragg Power needed new code and just been wrong. Or maybe it was supposed to do something different and its final state is an ugly artifact of changed plans.
And yep, English localization eating Ability displays. Again. This seems to have happened a lot...
I can only hope Hel the Messenger is something like Russian grammar being applied by someone who wasn't a native English speaker, because yeah, it's pretty bad, and a pretty strange construction for a native English speaker to arrive at. I can sort of imagine a non-native speaker recognizing it's Hel as in the goddess and thinking 'Hel the Messenger' makes sense the way you might say 'Bob, the postman'? But I'd think a native speaker would object just on the grounds of it being an 'ugly' phrase, even if they thought it was technically accurate.
My best guess on Exorcist's Staff is that this comes back to the Russian magic stuff you laid out before -the bit about born mages hunting bad mages and all in particular, as 'magic user who hunts magical beings' sometimes gets termed an exorcist. (It's mostly reserved for people who get rid of ghosts or stop demonic possession, but only mostly) I can imagine someone having the necessary context on stuff like what Witchers get called in Russian to arrive at 'exorcist' as a reasonable-seeming translation going the other way... and being wrong, if so.
About Hel - in Russian it's 'Посланник Хель'. The first work is 'messenger', the second is 'Hel'/'of Hel'. Even google translate translate it correctly.
DeleteThat said, non-native Russain speakers sometimes misunderstand such phrases (made from [word] and [name]) as the [name] belonging to [word]. Hm, in this case we'll get Messenger [whose name is] Hel. Hel the messenger can come from this. But, like I said, it's a mistake that only a non-native speaker can make. Hmm...
That's interesting. In Russian 'exorcist' is specifically person (propably a priest) who banishes things that possess people or haunt places. So, in English it has wider meaning. I'll keep it in mind.
Still, Elder has no abilities or lore that hint at any anti-magic stuff. It's a pretty boring unit in general IMO. So in a way such a plain ability name as '[generic spellcaster]'s staff' fit it.
It's really generic word btw, one can use for absolutely any kind of magic-user. And for some not magical things too, like Indian snake charming. So seeing it translated as very specific (for a Russian) 'exorcist' was very surprising.
Correction - it's actually 'Вестник Хель', not 'Посланник Хель.' So technically it can mean either 'messenger of Hel' or 'herald of Hel'. It make no difference in realtion to the rest of the comment.
DeleteOh man, Herald of Hel would be a really great name. That's such a missed opportunity. And it sounds like in this case the problem might be that Warriors of the North's translators had less expertise in Russian than the prior games had -less access to native speakers or something of the sort. And probably less access to prior translator notes or the like, given how much stuff like Zlogn and Pilot's Beer got missed...
DeleteAnd yeah Elders don't have anti-magic stuff so it's still very strange a choice. It feels like there's got to be a weird story behind this.